Argentina v. Ecuador: LIVE

So far its a tough game. Ecuador already has had 3 corner kicks.

http://www.justin.tv/futbolarg

so far Veron is playing better than Riquelme

Ecuador is playing well so far…we’re creating chances, but nothing to show for it.

how did Kun miss that! anyways corner for Argentina…hope this one goes in.

Veron has had some pretty good passes so far this game

I’m off to watch this game, just a quick note to say the riquelme looks like he wants to kill someone.

Back to biting my fingernails watching the game.

Riquelme should be subbed off imediately, he isnt playing 20% to his potential. Hes loosing many balls and making bad passes.

hey Alexa…Ecuador is looking good so far on the counters! i gotta feeling for all our possession we’ll lose on a counter again.

how on earth did Messi miss that!! is there something on the pitch, they slipping right in front of the goal.

It’s worrying

to see Riquelme off like this (thinking forward to the Brazil game).

Oilerfan– I’ll be shocked if Arg doesn’t manage to score on us. And we have nobody to score our goals. I wouldn’t worry, you guys. Arg will score at least one goal here.

As an Ecuador fan, it’s sort of nice to see Guerron cause some worry, and force Mashcerano to make those big tackles.

Riquelme Veron Pato and Zanetti should all retire from international play. Basile needs to play carrizo. The only forwards we have on the bench are Pacalico and Cruz. No Cavenaghi or Lopez. We need stop calling these washed up players to the nt.

yeah, Riquelme is way off his usual game…he’s obviously not fit atm…i think he may be subbed in the second half.

Alexa, i got a feeling this one is going to be scoreless tbh or Ecuador may even score…there’s no real urgency to score from Arg even though they have alot of the possession…maybe Riquelme being off his game is rubbing-off on the rest of our players.

Anyone watch the Brazil vs. Para game…i missed it but just heard about the result…wow what is up with Brazil lately? then again…against us, they always bring it up a notch, so this prob means nothing for the wed game anyway.

Slow start but completely dominating now.

Masche immense again. How Burdisso is ahead of Colcinni & Gonzalo ? One gift pass bailed out by Masche & appalling pass to Pato.

Veron has done well.Riquelme is nowhere at present.

Messi impressive again but when he & Kun get the ball there are 2 defenders on them immediately but no one makes a run off Kun or Messi to receive the ball when they would be in space,.

Too static. Tow best chances have come when we switched the point of attack at speed from right to left.

Also lack of physical presence in the box. Great delivery three times but no one to knock it in. How on earth Cruz is on the bench ahead of Cavenaghi ??

Sub Riquelme drop Messi into his role & bring on Palacio in a wide role & let Zanetti tuck in & cut across.

Why even Denis is not on the bench ??

Ecuador not much to offer aside from the brief flurry at te start . Could have been a penalty with Kun tugged in the area.Sometimes given sometimes not. 3 fouls on Messi so far but no card.

Veron should drift anywhere he likes in the second half & stretch the oposition midfield.

Heinze has made the odd run so far. Maxi a bit quiet.

Best news is Paraguay beating Brazil 2-0.

I believe basile will sub riquelme off and bring in cruz, therefore swithching the formation to a 3-5-1-2 or a 3-5-3.

Riquelme’s game is expected. The space is tight at 3rd of the field. That’s probably the reason why Veron is brought in. Messi needs to avoid bringing the ball into the box. It’s a wall in there. He needs to open-up the 3rd. We need outside threat.

It’s insane to call for Riquelme’s retirement. He’s one of the best midfielders in the world. You can’t NOT play a genius. You can’t keeo him off the field.

He’s coming back from injury — he’s played amazingly well in the libertadores. He’s still the most important element in Masile’s game. Come On!

Golazo agree completely regarding Pato & Cruz & Gutierrez (lacks quality). I dont like the way Basile is relying on former Boca links.

I’d rather have Bianchi as coach if this i going to persist & players like Cavegol,Licha, Saviola are going to be left out.

Argentina is Messis’ team not Riquelme he still thinks he is big papi

The thing about Riquelme is that he can play terrible the whole game then with just one flash of brilliance comes a goal. If you sub him off it wouldn’t be hard for the defenders to close down Veron on his own he is too slow.

why is everyone ragging on Riquelme…he’s having a bad game, he hardly needs to pack his bags! He should be subbed in the next half if things dont change, but that means nothing for the next game…we’ll need him against Brazil to slow down their game.

One question about the Brazil game –

Has Kaka decided that he’s not going to bother with Brazil anymore? Has he renounced his citizenship? Because those “injuries” that he has only seem to sprout up when national duty rolls around.

I find his attitude completely scandalous.

gago coming on for maxi.. =\

Gago.:)

im all for gago, i just like maxi alot

In the last copa america, everybody came in thinking that Argentina was Messi’s team. And then we all found out that it was Riquelme’s team. I can’t even believe the short sightedness of calling him off for one bad half. I’m glad the the Arg coaches aren’t that fickle.

Maxi was unusually quiet.

Referee is weak. By now he should have at least brought out one yellow card . Weak.

Useless referee. Clewar barge no card.

No wonder attacking football is dying.

Maxi should be helping Riquelme in passing & creating space at the left.

Hey Christian my user name “AKK” has been blocked by a spamfilter. Can you look into it. Thanks.

ita with Alexa. I love Messi, but atm the team is built around Riquelme’s genius…when he’s off his game so is the whole team…he’s the one player imo that is irreplaceable. In the future, who knows, but it’ll be a sad day when Riquelme retires…and hopefully that wont be for a long time. Man i’m dying for a goal…someone please score!

Akk2, it isn’t being blocked on my end. Try again and let me know.

On comes the tree.

Good goal. Great start from Basile.

oh crap…i knew it…lol, Ecuador scores.

This is a joke

What a surprise. The tree misses a simple chance.

OMG

I hope Argentina loses so Basile will finally leave

That’s not even a counter attack. That’s Veron-Gago combo. Banega?

Looking at the replay great work from Pato.

Bianchi in Basile out perhaps.

A team with this level of talent available to it should not be all due respect to Ecuador be losing to an average team & at home.

Pathetic.

Listen — I’m happy that Ecuador scored –

But you guys are HIGH if you think that changes should be made from one performance. What is with you people?

Argentina is having problems — all big teams need to adjust when proiblems arise. Some big wholesale whole cloth change like, let’s lop off the heads of Riquelme and Basile after a ineffective showing? We are talking about the long haul here.

And also, Ecuador is playin with a lot of confidence, becuase many of the players for that team play for Liga, who did very well against Argentine teams in the Libertadores. So it’s not THAT much of a travesty that Arg. isn’t destroying us minnows:)

Alexa, you’re right. We’re already thinking ahead of Brazil’s game. It’s Ecuador, NOW!

Ecuador is kicking Argentina’s ass with its million dollars team…COME ONE ECUADOR!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way — i still think that Arg will score at least once in this game.

Oh yes Rodo. 10 men behind the ball one freak attack helped by the keeper. And cheating at every turn.

Truly world class.

This is fucking unacceptable.

FUERA COCO

Basile makes his change a minute from time…..

Rodo- no seas pendejo. Estas en foro para futbol argentino.

Aurelius– hey — Ecu is fighting hard, and I do think that both team are equal on yellows, so lay off on the meanness!

Well Aurelius, at the end scoring is what makes you win..besides, Argentina hasn’t been really superior in this game…not that man by man Ecuador is more but today they have been outstanding…GO ECUADOR!!

I can’t believe that we can’t score even 1 goal with this team in two games (180 mins) of football against average teams…

Mi amor -Alexa- sin resentimientos por favor…que todos nos vamos a Sudafrica…

Shameful. Simply shameful. Palacio saves Basiles bacon.

Still shameful to draw.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOOOOOOOOOL

F..CK….congrats guys…see ya

Best game by PATO!

OMG i just had a heart attack!!!

i told you guys 1-1

FUERA COCO
FUERA COCO
FUERA COCO

Tactics & selection questionable.

Simeone or Bianchi ? This in the modern game is not good enough to keep playing infront of the opposition & far too static at times.

No width ,no runners off the ball,no balls in behind .Too easy t defend against & another howler from Pato in retrospect.

Truly ridiculous result, considering the quality of players we have.

WHERE THE HELL WAS TEVEZ?

is it Argentina 1 – Ecuador – 1??

Arg players whistled off the field.

Both Brazil and Arg shaken after this day, now to face each other on Tuesday? Wednesday?

that was the worst thing that could happen palacio saved Basiles’ ass big time and now we are still gonna have a shit coach picking shit old players over players in there prime…Aurelius says it best “Shameful”

damn, my stream died and i missed it. oh well, better to draw than lose.

This game was made for Tevez to bad he was suspended

I need prozac!

Yeah — I think that everybody should be dismissed outright. Throw everyone out and start new.

You guys are ridiculous.

was it a controversial goal guys…someone on another forum just said it was not a fair goal and that it was after fulltime? i missed it completely

Alexa

talking about the long haul??? Basile Calls on players who are 33+ of age.

This is awful performance. Can’t someone in Argentina kill Pato, or at least break his leg or DO SOMETHING GUYS IN ARGENTINA. PLEASE.

Have anyone ever seen him stretch his hands. His legs are so rooted. Same goal as Baptista in copa final.

Brazil, who is losing to everybody will pump 3 to 5 goals again. I have said it before all you need to do is to keep the ball in goal.

Moreover, Demichelis is out against Brazil. Why do you think he got the yellow card. Simply one reason, Gabriel Heinze.

During that time, he made at least 3-4 tackles in left back position, since Heinze was panting. Even a player 5 meters behind Gabriel Heinze over runs him. GOD!

ITS SO FRUSTRATING!

Alexa & Rodo. Yes you had a couple of attacks a sucker punch but looking at the game posession was dominated but the system is ineffective for reasons above.

No width, no overlapping runners . At times Messi or Kun has the ball no one comes off them to create space.They just watch & off goes Kun & Messi in their own merry way.

Also poor refereeing. Some cynical fouls & timewasting.

Apologies if I sound mean but compared to the way Pekerman had them playing whilst the ability & talent is there for all to see the lack of direction is something else.

Tevez over Kun still on this performance & Saviola for that matter.

Please please. Carizzo, Gonzalo or Colocinni & Cavenaghi in next game & more movement off the first receiver.

We could play keep ball all day infront of the defence but zero penetration.

Disappointing. First competitive game for a while & deflating.

Still a point is a point & a little sharper finishing could have got us three points. All teams coming to Monumental will play like this. Its no good expecting one forward to suceed if we dont have runners coming into the box from deep or running off him to create space.

Far too congested & as I have said a real lack of width until late on when Heinze at last really pushed on & Zanetti got to the byeline a couple of times.

Hey, is this really the end of the world?

NO IT”S NOT.

Did anybody listen to the players talking after the game?
The comments by Messi, Agüero and Maxi?

What is this problem with 33+.

The only guy who looked who could pass a ball is Veron. I hate to admit it but I am at least not blind folded. What are the young guns doing. Aguero missed a hat full. Nothing to do with age.

Just drop Cruz from the above 30. He cannot score for NT. Rest all are fine.

Basile should be kicked out also.

Gago out played Riquelme
Messi best for Argentina
Aguero sucked Riquelme sucked ass (waste of space on the field) Pato was decent because there was only 3 shots on goal?? he still sucks
cruz should give up

imo, Cruz and Heinze are our weak links. So sick of them being played…they’re too slow and too inconsistent. Everyone else is fine, they just need a bit of work and being put in better positions. It is frustrating seeing such a talented team not dominate the way they should, but its not the end of the world. I do feel that Pekerman was a better organizer and knew the players strengths and weakness’s better…he positioned players better than Basile…but its still early, lets see what happens against brazil before we call for his head.

Looking back:
- Argentina’s offense did not click because Aguero and Riquelme were not in form.
- Mascherano had to substituted and Argentina’s defense looked very shaky from then on – probably shows how Mascherano dependent the team has become.
- Burdisso and Heinze were terrible.
- Zanetti was well below his usual but still better then most others.
- If required Basile needs to be able to substitute his main offensive players like Riquelme and fall back on a different plan at any point in the game. Riquelme has not recovered from his injury and it is stupid to make him play all 90 minutes. Today he completely disappeared after 60 minutes.
- Pato Pato Pato: WTF is he doing in the NT colors? He was called into play only once in the game and the ball literally flew over his head before he could react. This guy is a freakin’ comedy show.
- All is not gloomy btw. Argentina kept fighting till the last kick and that payed off big time. Their game was completely ineffective but they had self-belief.

Debasish

Are you serious???? Veron won’t be around for 2010 but Aguero will. And young guns?? Messi and Gago were the only people who actually played to win and ran there asses off unlike Riquelme who is to slow for the new generation of Argentines.

Albo,
Can you tell us what were the after game comments? Which channel showed after game comments? Thanks.

I think that everyone is going a little beserk here.

1) It seems to me that many people assume that Arg and Brazil will just roll over everybody in the qualifiers. Check the history books — It’s rarely that easy for either team. We have many teams in SOuth America who know how to play the big boys, who can do well against them. I amean — even the US plays the big SOuth Amerfican teams well!

2) When I mean long haul, I mean, Basile is choosing a base who will be around for the next world cup – and one poor official game after a 5 month hiatus should not mean the death knell for an entire regime!. Also, Basile had to put Veron out there tonight, becuase he saw that Riquelme was not match fit. Riquelme will be 32 in the next world cup. That’s not too old.

I do agree that they should play the younger players. But maybe they’ve decided to just have the younger guys focus on the Olympics.

3) Like I said before, Riquleme is a genius. You have to play your geniuses. Sorry. That’s just the way it is. Wait until he finally retires — then you’ll see how important a player of that quality really is. He was plainly not fit today. But he HAS been playing well this season. So it’s not as if he lost it.

4) Arg had to face Ecuador with no real time to preapre (a harlem globetrotter tour through america should not count as preparation). They faced very very tough competition against an Ecuadorian side that is physically very strong and very disciplined. Ecuador showed the benefits of having played in big games, becuase their concentration was really good. Except for that last second goal.

5) The commentators on my feed were saying that no one was helping Aguero. Obviously, he hasn’t been incorporated into the dynamics of the team yet. This will take time. Tevez can’t play because of his suspension (from the red card against Colombia, I think).

Anyway– I think that what we saw was a team that hasn’t played together in a long long time, with key players who weren’t at 100 percent. That’s all.

Hey Pato wants to be there in 2010 !! Has he no self awareness ?

Albo its not the end of the world. In the great scheme of things on this little speck of dust in the universe everything we do ultimately is meaningless.

But still we live for the present.

Have to say Gago was wonderful aside from giving one intercept & one poorly directed pass.He gets he receives & does it with SPEED of movement & thought.

Too slow at times today allows the opposition defence to realign to set up.

With Messi we need similarly paced player just to run off him create space or provide a passing option.

Same for Kun.He & Messi nearly clicked several times but again with double marking we need to utilise the space better.

As for JRR I dont think he is fully fit. At least we got a point unlike Brazil & Uruguay were held by Venuzuela but I’m starting to have serious reservations regarding Basile despite his wealth of experience & his selection policy.

Albo –

can you post the comments made after the game?

Thanks!

Alexa no hard feelings. Well done for getting a point & so very nearly three.

But with Pekerman I’m sure the qualification path last time was pretty smooth & this is the Monumental the spiritual home of Argentinian football after 78.

You know what will happen though. A win against Brazil & we’ll be whistling a different tune. Thats football.

Who would be a manager ? Bianchi ? After 1 WCQ ?

Still for a team like Argentina the expectation is enormous. To win & win with style. Nothing else is good enough.

And the talent to do that is available. Direction ?

Golazo, YES I am serious. Why is age a factor? If you read my earlier posts I hated all these old players. Did not want them in team. But today Veron performed. Why deny that. Did you see the game? Did you see his passes? Why deny it? If he performs against Brazil, why not? Whats the problem? Thats what I think now.

Get Pato OUT. Not because he is 35, even if he was 20. You get the point? So is Cruz, Heinze etc. I would be happy if we can get some young players to replace these jokers.

If you read my earlier posts, I have said Gago is the best developing player. But Basile does not have balls to drop Riquelme even if you have realized that its not his day. Remember, I am big fan of Riquelme, I would put him in the starting line up always. But if a NOBODY like me can understand its not his day, why can’t Basile? Why can’t he be subbed.

Problem is not the players, or the age of the players. Problem is the manager. You need to adopt based on the way the game is going. Basile is old and cannot do that.

I WOULD EAGERLY WAIT FOR POSTS FROM MAXI LOPEZ. Want to know what he thinks.

But guys, lets face it, Basile is not going to give us a WC. Period.

There are some idiots who want the old hag – 29 year old Riquelme – to retire. He has had one off game after excellent performances in 9 of the last 10 competitive games and scored 9 goals (leads the team in both scoring and assisting). People who want him to retire either need to check into a mental health institute. Or simply stop hating people based on blind bias. It makes you look really stoopid you know .

And remember that Riquelme was not fully fit and is coming off a truly gruelling last month of the regional season.

Maradona, I would agree with you about Riquelme. I am a big fan of the guy. He is a rare species, a missing link.

But let me also ask you this. Do you think he should have been played today? Or should he been subbed?

In my opinion, Riquelme was having a bad day at office. Veron was surprisingly (I really did not expect) was pulling the strings nicely. We have a game against Brazil. May be Riquelme would have a great day against Brazil. (He actually does not play very bad against them. Remember last time we won 3-1. Also in copa final he shattered the post and the GK saved a great one. Only if he was lucky and Pato was in Brazil goal we could have been 2-1 up in copa final. Both goals by JRR.). So I would have taken him out.

Demichelis factor is one that is most worrying at this moment.

VERON WHAT VERON WHO veron was man of the dam match his passing and positioning was fantastic messi was bone idle roman looked completley out of it was ill last few days Aguero was just plain out of his league BRING BACK SAVILOA THE GUY WHO SCORED AGAINST FRANCE REMEMBER HIM THE GUY WHO ACTUALLY DOES SOMTHING UN LIKE TEVEZ

We can certainly play at a far faster tempo & still control posession due to technique level of players like Gago.

And we need to with modern defences the way they are set out.

And Aguero could do with someone like Cavenaghi or Licha alongside to play off & create.

Demichelis was solid & sold short as Debashish says by Heinze.We still have Colocinni & Gonzalo.

Cavegol must play alongside Aguero Messi can play the enganche as far as I’m concerned.

If Masche is missing (& if he ahs any injury should be rested) play Battaglia alongside Gago to start the play/

And of course Carizzo for Pato. Players have to start some time. He could screw up of course but how else we will know.

Chau amigos. Disappointed but hope springs eternal & dont forget under Coco we did play some great football last summer but we need a revision of personell & pacier tactics.

Debasish,
If you read my previous comments, I was screaming for Riquelme substitution throughout the 2nd half. He had a bad day and he should have been subbed – it is quite simple. However some assholes want him to retire even though he was the team’s best player in the last 10 competitive games (6 Copa + 4 WCQ).

Albo, would you please post the after game comments made by the players.
I think we lacked pace in the midfield and at the back. Messi and Aguero had little service in the first half, we were too slow in getting the ball forward.
Yes, Riquelme had an off day, but then again Burdisso and Heinze didn’t pass well, and Heinze was too slow getting back. Veron made some lovely passes but again lacks pace.
You have to bear in mind that we’re playing Brazil in 3 days and we’re probably saving our selves for that game.
Messi was slow to start but once he got going he was really good, and to all of you who are having a go at Aguero it’s his assist that laid the ball in the path of Palacio that got us the equaliser.

I have not checked back here in a while but i have to now.. Absolutely embarrassing today. I feel embarrassed as an argentinian.. First thing is first before i get to the game CAN WE PLEASE move the Seleccion games to a different stadium than that god forsaken river plate chicken shit stadium sorry about the language but its necessary. Giants stadium was louder than El Monumental!!!!!Can we play 1 game in the bombonera and im not even a boca fan but at least the away team will by far feel intimidated hahaha. As to the game WOW very very very very embarrassing..Riquelme didnt feel like playing obviously. Veron gave Riquelme a lesson on how to play with a little bit of balls for your country..Dont get me wrong Riquelme is Super Class but sometimes u need some pure balls to get a win and he doesnt have that attribute. Mascherano as always is a straight up scary animal of a defensive midfielder. Simeone is definitely proud of whos playing in his spot hopefully he will be alright. Abbondonzieri needs to go. Beautiful goal by ecuador but PATO not even an attempt and he is a dinosaur. POOR POOR POOR looking argentina.some players deserve a slight applause for example demichelis zanetti veron aguero and messi and of course palacio who brought heart onto the field..At some points i felt as though they play with such a big headedness instead of a hunger or the desperation like they did after they were scored upon.

Where is BATISTUTA and CANNIGIA when you need one DAMMMM IT..pass me another drink i need to cry

No more comparisons to Maradona because there will never be another PERIOD end of conversation..

coming out of the gates ecuador really pressured and i think that really set the tone of the game. they were compacted, disciplined and very focused. arg on the other hand did not play with the confidence i expected.
i thought that riquelme was off real off, but anyone who thinks he should retire should be ignored. veron played well he offered a diferent type of play than what arg is used too, many long balls which all didn’t connect but you could see what he was trying to do. the fact is though we need a #9 even though cruz didn’t play well his size alone was a big impact on ecuador’s deffense. maxi was invisible, and apart from micho the defense was below average. pato’s defending was at least 2 levels below that. aguero had his chances but just couldn’t finish them the long ball over the middle for him to run onto is not his sthrenght. messi was his usual self running at defenders. but what i noticed he was being a creator to much. only towards the end of the game he got fed up and took a long range shot. i personnally want him to be more selfish and take more shots. when you have riquelme and veron on the pitch let them do the creating and messi be the finisher.
brazil can be beat we just need the confidence we need to stifile them the way par did the way ecu did us. curious to see who pato will play especially at the cb, boy i wish burdisso could have been suspended instead. every one here keeps talking about pace, how we need pace, how veron and heinze has no pace, how riquleme is the slow magician. what i think we need is discipline, better gk, an aeirial threat and the confidence to play 90 minutes of good football.

Before and after the game, players complained about the state of the pitch and how bad the bounces were through out the whole game.
After the game, Kun and Maxi only spoke about the field.
Messi looked very upset too. He said: “when you play against a 10 player defense like that one, with both lines close to each other, pressing, the only way to beat them is with quick and short passes. But that’s impossible on a pitch like this.
At least I don’t know how to do that”.

(The problems at River have started months ago with a series of giant rock concerts.
Complains have been a constant ever since.)
Maradona, I watched the argy broadcast, with comments by Enrique Macaya Márquez.

I was gonna post my opinion of the game, but for the time being, I’ll pass.
Saludos

I guess the pitch affected
only the 11 Argy players and
not the 10 Ecuador players! Idiot!

There you can see why I’d rather not give a personal opinion.
I get called an idiot for just reporting something I saw on TV.
I think I need a little vacation.
This place is starting to stink a little.

Ken not to give argentina any excuses cuz i agree it works for both teams and i thought the performance was embarrassing as a player wen u play on bad field we call it an extra defender so obviously its not idiotic to say that it benefits the defensive team even tho i dont wanna hear anymore excuses its time to win.. someone get Bati out of retirement haha

What 10 players? They had all 11 players on the field. Did you even watch the game or are you posting off news of the Brazil-Paraguay game. Ecuador’s ofensive game was non-existent throughout the game – they had one chance and made full use of that (brilliant goal but helped in some part by Pato’s sickening goal keeping). Argentina’s offense was ineffective but nobody is saying the pitch only affected Argentina.

I’ve always wondered why Arg plays their national games at the monumental, and not the bombonera (which seems built to capture more noise and atmosphere).

As to the state of the pitch — that’s really strange. I would think that the conditions have to be ideal for the home team. This seems like internal complaints against the organization and running of events, the stuff you hear all the time in South America.

I would assume that a poor pitch benefits the defensive team. And since Ecu were the visitors, they were going to play more defensively. But it’s not as if Arg didn’t break through the defense. They just didn’t finish off the chances that they had. (in the second half Ecu defense played very well during those scary moments).

Riquelme was obviously unfit. Basile does need a plan B, for when that situation arises. But he will improve, obviously. He looked so pissed off that I’ll just call that motivation.

“Basile seems incapable of combining the individual talent…” — that’s actually a hugely difficult task. Arg has a collection of splendid players, but they are quite different, some old school, some cutting edge. To get that magnificent blend will be a huge task, and Basile seemed to find that combo very well in the Copa America. Again, this is the first game after a 100plus day hiatus.

Teams like Arg and Brazil get away with a lot of issues because of individual brilliance. Individual acts of genius tend to hide team errors. But when they don’t show up (as in today for both brazil and arg), then the team’s issues become very obvious.

The moment of concern for me was seeing Basile and the Arh players sort of lose it a little after Ecuador scored. They didn;t close ranks, and go at it. They just sort of ran faster and looked flustered.

So much is expected of this team, and of the individuals, that confidence seemingly turns into doubt very very quickly.

Albo — don’t go. Things will come down soon.

I want to hear your opinions of the game, at least!

Alexa, I think your guys played excellent defence for 3/4 of the match.
Like Messi described it, 2 tight lines very close to each other, pressing as soon as our guys would cross the midfield line. Great lesson for us.
We made the mistake of trying to enter dribbling through the center of the field for too long.
When Cruz came in and Messi moved out to the right sideline our guys were able to create openings with enough room to penetrate. Those minutes we were really close to scoring several times.
Messi is a great great player. He can make something happen even if Riquelme and Agüero are not on.
And he has to play on the right side as a forward.
Other than that, mi querida amiga, I thought a draw was a fair score.
But only because our guys were horrible.
Any other day, Argentina should have the edge, just out of individual skills.
Me encantan tus comentarios y tu sentido del humor.

Veron was good.
Riquelme was off obviously but he is gonna be one of the keys to our success up until at least WC 2010.

Crespo would be a better sub than Cruz if we want a tall strike to come off the bench.

No matter what, we need to beat Brazil on Wed!

pato,requelme,veron and all old player must be out,why basile should be affraid with our young player who have capability.

ermmm if Argentina play with brazil like their show the poor game against ecuador i think the Brazillian will laugh.Now AFA should think about to change the poor basile.Basile don’t have a good tactic.If me, i will choose pasarella or Batistuta to coach for Argentina. Now don’t say we don’t have a good player.We have Aguero,Messi,Maxi,Gago,Riquelme and more.Basile should know what is wrong with him self. I always support Argentina but i’m worried if we loose to brazil again. We always say we want to beat brazil but look who will beat who? hermm i always like to see Argentina beat brazil. oh plzzz Argentina fight for your right.

Palermo off the bench hahahaha I never thought I would say it but somehow he always finds a way to put it in from his nose to the string he ties his shorts with. Ok let’s talk serious. First off now that the initial shock passed through my system there is really no need to worry as we will be in the world cup in 2010. Second even after a lousy showing like this we scare the crap out of other countries including ourselves because after all I would much rather be in our position than in let’s say Ecuador for example of watching us play. Third the potential of our side to play some of the sexxiest soccer is undeniable and very few teams on the planet can even dream of even creating enough talent to accomplish this. Just one question I have been out of the scene for a while. Where is saviola tevez aimar and milito<both of them???

wow, aregntina will play with brazil this week. when is this match and where will it be played?

WHAT IS THE POINT OF CRITISIZING ANY PLAYER IF THE FOOL BASILE IS PICKING HIM AGAIN AND AGAIN?

-PATO: why blame him!? if i were him and basile is calling why should i decline. EVERY BODY KNOWS THAT HE SUCKS. HE’S BEEN TRIED SEVERAL TIMES. HE IS THE REASON BEHIND THE GOAL AND THE DRAW…..ANY SECOND CLASS GOALKEEPER IN EUROPE CAN SAVE SUCH SHOT..IT WAS BETWEEN HIS HANDS!

RECOMENDATION: CAN WE GET SOMEONE LIKE KLOSE TO KICK HIM AND GET HIM SUBBED?! BUT THIS TIME FOR EVER!

-HIENZE: HE IS A SERIOUS WEAKPOINT ….HE IS A REASON BEHIND THE LOSS AGAINST GERMANY AND THE YELLOW CARD TO DEMICHILIS TODAY…

COLLOCINI LOOKS MORE SOLID OR AT LEAST GET A TRUE WING BACK IF HE IS NOT DEFENDING WELL…..WHY DON’T WE TRY ESQUERDO?

-MASCHERANO: IF HIS INJURY IS SERIOUS…I WILL KILL BASILE….THE BEST DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER ON THE PLANET IS ATTACKING AS A WINGER!IT REALLY SUMS UP HOW ARE WE GOING TO WIN IN SOUTH AFRICA. MAYBE NEXT WE SHOUD PLAY PATO AS #9 MAYBE HE WILL JINX THE OTHER TEAM.

MAXI RODREGUIEZ: WHY WAS HE SUBBED? HE LOOKED SOLID AND GAVE BALANCE AND WIDTH IN THE MIDFIELD. I REALLY LIKED THE 3-5-2 IN THE FIRST HALF…AT LEAST WE WEREN’T EXPOSED WHEN HE WAS THERE….ONE OF THE TRUE COLLECTIVE PLAYERS IN ARGENTINE AND HE REMINDS OF SEEDORG IN MILAN

FINALLY A MESSAGE TO RENOVA:

PLAESE …IF YOU WANT TO MAKE MORE MONEY OUT OF THE ARGENTINEAN TEAM…PLEASE REPLACE BASILE….WHY SHOULD WE ASK GORONDONA TO REPLACE BASILE …LETS SIGN A LETTER TO RENOVA ….AM SURE THE HAVE A HAND AND CHOOSING THE MANAGER

A short comment from me…..
Very disapointing result, but I am not THAT surprised. Equador is a good team. And Argentina are still their own worst enemies in a way….Let us see against Brazil now…Brazil will be very keen on a revenge after they lost to Paraguay…..I have a feeling this could be terrible, but let us see….I will be VERY satisfied with a draw.
See you guys later.

Ciao

Okay, first off, even the commentators here in Englad were saying that the pitch was terrible and wasn’t helping our players, if your playing a short passing game you need a nice level pitch. But, at the same time let’s not make too many excuses for the players not playing well, as soon as Riquelme, Aguero or Messi got on the ball they were surrounded by 2-4 Ecuador players. In the first half we created a few chances but looked like we were playing in 2nd gear. We were too slow to get the ball up to our forwards, when we attack we must attack quicker.
Pato was 5 yards in front of his line had he been on his line he would have made the save. Credit should be given to Ecuador because they never let us find any rhythm.
I would have liked to see Palacio come on in place of Cruz, even though he doesn’t always score his movement is very good and i reckon we would have created more chances.
I have to say though that whenever we lost the ball we never hustled or closed down the Ecuador players, we have to close down and disrupt the opposition otherwise we’ll be giving them free potshots at our goal. And this is one of the areas which i think Pekerman did a good job with.

Wow! That was the worst Argentina performance I have seen in years (in fact I can’t remember a worse game: at least the brazil games were against Brazil). Flat, slow. First things first: Ecuador DID get what they deserved. They played for 0-0, had one good move and then it finished 1-1. You deserve what you work for and they worked for a draw. Why else did they time waste from the very first minute (taking 40 seconds for each goal kick and set piece).
That said, what were Argentina doing? Three central defenders in defence, in the second half four central midfielders in midfield. No width, no speed. Yeah Veron played well, but for Veron to play well others have to suffer. He and Riquelme are not compatible. He doesn’t bring others in. And while I’m on the subject, who after 2006 thought the future of the Argentina national team would be Veron, Zannetti, Heinze and Cruz?? No one apart from Basile, it seems. I hope they have a plan to blood players at the Olympics and then use them because those guys are finished now. That’s just what happens to players in their 30’s.
Heinze was useless, constantly beaten, but in fairness all defenders looked lost when under attack. Messi and Aguero need another striker to play with.
Also, on Riquelme: he is not a football player. He is a tactic. Sometimes a tactic will work, sometimes not. But if you play the Riquelme tactic (as you sometimes should) then you play it properly and put the players around him that he needs. You can’t just shove him in any old midfield and if that’s your only idea, leave him out.
I’m just confused by last night

Oh, what I meant to say was the team was so narrow from defence to attack, it looked like ants returning to their nest, or the elephants from the Jungle Book. You know, all walking along in a straight line?

Oh and Kris: Saviola is seemingly happy to play substitute to the stars rather than finding one of the many teams who will play him every week so he can get back to top form and in to the national team. Tevez was banned from last nights game for a red card against Colombia and said he was too tired for the Brazil game. Diego milito and Pablo Aimr have just been relegated with Zaragoza and Gabi Milito is injured till xmas.

Maradona,
FYI, I did watch the game on Soapcast for free. Before the
game, MAXILOPEZ has laid out in black
and white the relationship
between AFA, Renova and how
it negatively impacts Argentinean
football. If someone read carefully or paid attention to
what Maxilopez has been saying
for the past 2 years now, the result between Ecuador
V Argentina should not be surprising at all. It would be
interesting to see whether Mascherano would be back
against the Brazil game. With the yellow card, it is clear
DeMichellis will be missing, which will be huge for us. It is really really sad when the best holding midfielder in the world has desperately been turned into a right winger. What a shame? The carnage will continue against Brazil. Please people, please give Ecuador some credit as they almost beat the world so called #1!
Cheers you all,
Ken

Nothing personal Ken, but why give credit? We’re just people on the internet, not ambassadors for the sport. We’re here to support Argentina and right now they are hurting as are their fans. Is the Renova deal bad for Argentinean football? Of course. Is all the money and suspicious investments? Of course. But last nights game was a result of bad team selection and a bad formation against a team that had done their homework where Argentina blatantly hadn’t.

Many people say messi doesn’ fit in with the style that Argentina, but it is Riquelme who can’t fit in with these new generation of really fast players who love to run and that is there game. You guys say Riquelme controls the pace of the game but he doesn’t he can only play at his on pace which is waaay to slow for the new generation of Argentina players. The only reason Riquelme is doing good in CLub Football is because Boca Jrs are a really old team and they didn’t even win anything this year. I now he was injureded but he played like shit against River and a 20 year old “midget” was the star of Argentina this year and not him.

Alfio Basile: ‘We were lucky to draw the match with the last move of the game,’ said Argentina coach Alfio Basile.

‘We played well in our last games and today we didn’t. There’s not much to add.’

Sometimes the responsibility falls on the shoulders of the players as well. You know most of us here on this blog had criticized Pekerman before WC2006 and asked for him to be replaced – but he knew what he was doing, didn’t he? He picked Riquelme for a reason – whereas Bielsa started Riquelme in ONE game. Bielsa stuck to Veron and Ortega – well past their prime.

Let Coco work. His substitutions last night DID work. Gago for Maxi made a HUGE difference. If Riquelme had showed up and Cruz started with Messi and Aguero – it would’ve been a totally different game.

Lets relax and focus on Brazil.

What wave of really fast players are you talking about? Messi and Aguero, tevez? Those are what you call forwards. They are supposed to be fast.

I mean – are you arguing that Arg shouldn’t have a midfield? Who do suppose would take the midfield position? Messi? He isn’t there yet. Basile has tried him in that position, and it hasn’t worked. Aimar -? His team just got RELEGATED. D’Allesandro? He’s a head case. I’d like to hear some actual ideas here, because just going the KID POWER ra ra route is cute, but not really effective. Or do you just think that Messi can do it all because he’s just the bestest?I mean — talk some sense.

Riquelme has been the best player for Arg for the last 10 games. About Boca — Are you high? Boca can’t win every year. They’ve won the Libertadores like 5 times in the last ten years. That’s what you call a dynasty.

This is laughable.

Felipe,
1. With all due respect to you, the CANCER that is
killing great players such as Mascherano is bigger than yesterday’s game.

2. Basile, whom I have criticized in the past, can only do the best he can, given the constraint he has put under by the AFA

3. That is, the problem is bigger than Basile. Fire Basile and bring
in another coach. The problem will not be solved.

4. In fact, both Argentina and Brasil suffer from the same problem. Money
has taken precedence over glory.

5. Government cannot intervene because FIFA will penalize.

6. Only the public at large can help by pressuring the AFA to change philosophy and course. Else we are doomed with no glory

7. Did you read what Maxilopez summarized earlier? Did get a chance to read what I wrote earlier in point forms about a potential solution through an exceptional example of political symmetry?

8. We can write about the little details of the game, the human mistakes etc. Unfortunately, this is missing the point completely.

9. If one understands the big picture, there is no ups and down because failure is predictable even given the enormous talent we possess in Argentina.

10.And let us not ridicule ourself by blaming the pitch; both teams suffer equally. Can the Argies blame the pitch when they are playing in front of home crowd?

11. Basile is a victim here because he signed the wrong contract. Very few world managers/coaches would sign such a contract. At his age, he is probably happy to have a job.

12. In summary, it is a change of philosophy that will allow the Argies to lift the world cup again, not going after the head of the coach/manager or individual players. All of them without exception are just trying their best given their limitations.

Felipe, thanks for your comments again.

Cheers to you all,
ken

I don’t think it was Riquelme himself that was completely at fault, if you watch every game in which Riquelme has played, the team has been worked around him, last night he was playing as just another player and he was off, simple as. Every player has an off day once in a while. The other thing is that Riquelme and Veron together just doesn’t work, because the whole midfield slows down, might have been better to play Lucho in place of Veron.

Actually Ken both teams only suffer equally if they are both playing a short passing game, since Ecuador was playing 10 men behind the ball the pitch conditions would have affected them a lot less than it did us, but like i said b4 that might be a part of it but the blame also has to go to the coach and players.
Ken could you stop repeating the same points over and over again.

Riquelme has pass his prime, he will be even older in 2010, now it’s time to give Messi the No.10 jersey and let him play the No.10 position, in the previous two friendly games aganist Mexico and USA, Messi has show he is capabable of playing attack mid-fielder position, and in both game Argentina plays better than this match

Riquelme is great player, he got his chance in 2006 to bring glory to this team, unfounately, we failed, now it’s time to move on, we have other great player that deserve to be in the center of the stage now.

m8 dont talk rubbish riquelme is just unfit and basile had him on for 90 waiting for the moment of brilliance but it dont come. To be honest I think we playyed to slow today and ecudor hussle us brillantly, maxi was a waste of space to be honest im glad he came off, veron played a good game but messi and aguero where to deep to play the final ball, i think lucho needs to be in the team hes one of the best passers and thats what we needed as riquelme wasnt getting involved enough, I just hope they get him fit for wed

Well, Ken, if I may: firstly, if you read my post you’ll notice that I acknowledge the deep lying problems in football. But what happened last night in the game (which is what we’re discussing here, my patronising friend) had little to do with it. Did Basile’s contract insist that he pick Veron? That Cruz be a part of the squad? That there should be so many central midfielders on the pitch at once? The three man defence? Of course not. Those were coaching decisions and they were wrong. Saying, ‘oh the players and coach are trying so don’t criticise them’ is nonsense. This is Argentina. Thye have more talented players than any other nation. And no, I’m not someone who criticises the team at any opportunity and makes comments (like you) such as ‘Brazil will kill Argentina Wednesday’. I want Argentina to win every game. But last night wasn’t like England in 2005, Croatia in 2006 or Germany in the World Cup where Argentina played well before throwing it away. They didn’t play well last night. I wanted them to but they didn’t.
I know money is ruining the game. But last night wasn’t due to the friendly fixtures or too many games played and miles travelled. Last night was pure sport. I hope Basile learns from it. I hope to see more speed, fresher players and new ideas from the coaches. Of course, the bigger picture is corruption and worldwide economics. But last night, 11 of Argentina’s best against 11 of Ecuador’s in Argentina, should be a win for this generation of Argentine players. Not looking so lost, slow and disorganised. That was all down to the coach and players.

All that is needed is a change in some personell & tactics to play a higher tempo game to switch the point of attack faster before the opposition to settle (as for much of yesterday).

Some more width & mixing up the game with bursts of passing & the odd longer pass to stretch the opposition & keep them on the backfoot.

What would certainly help is someone alongside to pick up the longer balls & not Aguero who is a media punta no matter what.

Personally I’d have Tevez in if possible for his sheer tenacity alone alongside him Cavegol, Licha or Denis who can offer far more than Cruz.

Stick Messi wide right & Lavezzi wide left or Di Maria for width.

JRR was unfit(the stick he has been receiving is grossly unfair considering his input thus far in the campaign). He can work with the faster players esp.if Gago is behind him (the classic modern midfielder with a characteristically Argentine flavour) as has been seen in the Copa & against Holland in WC06 & Mexico.

Messi should be given the oppurtunity to take this role Wednesday & put Maxi down the right.

The defence is lamentable.It needs aside from Dimi a complete overhaul. The personell is there Garay, Gonzalo for a start & of course Carizzo.

That shot should have been saved.

And I hope I dont hear the excuse the pitch was not good enough. This is how Argentinian kids pick up their close control playing on poor surfaces.

Lack of pace , width & movement killed us for large parts of the game.

But I’m behind them again. Unlikely of course considering the disruption of the backline but aside from Dimi this is what should have been tested & settled in the friendlies.

—————–Carizzo——————-
Zanetti——Colocinni—Gonzalo–Heinze—
——————–Gago——————-
Maxi————-Messi————Lavezzi–
———–Aguero——Cavenaghi———–

Felipe,
1. thanks a lot for responding. I think I am not clear enough. So I will try again. I will not label you(Patronizing) for it will lead us nowhere in the discussion. It is clear you also want the best for Argentina.

2.What we saw yesterday is a consequence of the decision that has been made before by AFA. How so you ask?

3.This is because Basile does not have the freedom to integrate the team to his liking during the very short period that he get to assemble his team. Those friendlies that Argentina play, put a tremendous constraint on him. So he has to field those players that the Renova contract force him to do. He feels obliged to do so to keep his job.

4. So when he is playing Veron, he is basically compensating by doing the best he could. His attempt is to help Riquelme who is not at his best right now. Aslo veron has shown some good form at his local club.

5. You and Day1star can eloquently blame Basile and the players. Did we not
blame Pekermann after the world cup defeat? I did too. But since then I learn thanks to our friend MAXILOPEZ that there is a bigger problem. Any coach that comes in, will literally be stuck with the same problem. They are forced to field players in friendlies which are not to their liking. As a consequence we get games like yesterday because the coach is unable to integrate his team. More of these kind of games will show up. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure this out as Maxilopez has find out.

6. Mind you that Pekermann had a big advantage compared to Basile because the former was in charge of the youth team. Even with such an advantage, he failed at the highest level because AFA put too much pressure on him to field players that will bring more money to them. Only a few at the top benefit from those deal.

7. Did you see how Pekermann refuse to coach the senior team again? I hope I made the point. If not let me know.

8. Did it dawn on you why we excelled at youth level but not at the senior level? Answer is no one tells the coach what to do at youth level. There is no Renova contract there and the coach has the liberty to see integrate the team to his liking. Results is that we boast of the most number junior championship because Argentina is very unique in producing great homegrown talents.

9. Some on this blog believe that Messi is the messiah and any critics less
than that leads to repudiation. While Messi is one of the most talented players in the world, even him can not do it by itself. This is because collective football has taken precedence over individualism. Any great players can easily be shut off in a critical game. we have seen that time and again.

thanks
cheers,
ken

Errors in the above:
Him= he
itself= himself

On Wed, it’ll be manager’s game. Both played poorly, so it’s up to managers to motivate and strategize the team. For us, with the talents that we have, even without Mascherano and Demi, we still should be able to field a great line-up, don’t we? With the constraints that Ken and Maxi were stressing, Basile is smart enough to prepare his team. We’ll see.

Good thing after Ecuador’s game is coaches and players are not feeling good about themselves, so they’ll be motivated.

No matter what, there will be
blood for sure!

I’m sorry Ken, but Pekerman’s decisions on the day lost us that match against Germany, had nothing to do with the AFA or Renova.
So, the only coach you can talk about is Basile being under constrant, and quite frankly since Basile decides the tactics and formation, part of the blame has to go to him. Riquelme was ill coming into this game, so why not just play as we had done against the US and Mexico, after all we hadn’t played too bad, we created loads of chances we just didn’t have a good finisher, so Basile could have played Palacio instead of Cruz, the team would have moved the ball a lot faster and we would have created lots of openings.

Alexa,

All due respect I have an internship with Goal.com so of course I know more then you concerning football.

Right now I’m going only say facts:

I know Boca is a Dynasty but Roman wasn’t there for the first four title, I”m pretty sure he was playing in Europe.

Roman isn’t the best player for Argentina, it’s Messi.

Roman plays like shit in games that are crucial.

Gago should replace Roman, look at the game against Mexico.

Gago, d’asslandro, Aima, liasndro lopez, Messi, Higuain, Aguero, Trejo, Mascherano, Maxi, Tevez, Zabeleta and Jonas are the really fast players I’m talking about these are the players that will be in the next world cup not veron, not cruz and not zanetti, Riquelme is to slow for these players and if these playerss slow down and play at the same pace as Roman these plays would play like shit.

Day1star,

If you go back and see what one
of us translated about Pekermann
disappointment, it has to do
with forcing him to play Messi while
Pekermann thought the latter was not
ready yet. Concept stays the same. One cannot
interfere with what manager/coach is trying
to achieve. This is a golden rule. Would Arsene Wenger/Alex Ferguson/Jose Mourinho allow anyone to tell them what do? Answer is a big no-no.

Everything else you bring such the right players substitutions etc
is only helping Basile to COPE. Coping by itself is simply
not enough to lift a cup when everybody is raising their games just
to beat Argentina. With some luck even Ecuador could have done so in front
of Argentina’s home crowd. Let us keep playing the blame game to see
far it will lead us…
Cheers,
ken

Some good news, Mascherano is ok, there is no injury and he should be available for the Brazil match if Basile picks him.
Since we have no Demichelis, i think Gonzalo Rodriguez should play in his place, with Collocini replacing Burdisso.

Thanks day1star.,
This is truly good news regarding Masch.

P.S Our weakness link though remain Gabriel Heinze.

Basile as soon as he became coach said he wanted Messi in the side, the people in Argentina wanted Messi in the side. Pekerman didn’t think Messi was recovered enough but he still took him to Germany because of pressure from the media and the fans. Basile didn’t have to take the job but he did, end of story. Messi could refuse to play like Tevez and say that he is tired and needs a rest but he doesn’t.

The discussion has become redundant at this point.

One last point Day1star
before I shut up:

Basile, being forced to field 7 players
in friendlies as result of renona contract is not
the same as ” …he wanted Messi in the side,
the people in Argentina wanted Messi in the side …. ”

I think it is agreeable
to disagree.

Thanks for your comments.

Ken, which 7 players?

All big teams are equally affective by corruption and money and politics. Look at what’s going on with Portugal right now, who are just pawns between the Manchester United, Real Madrid, Chelsea bitch slap feast.

What makes Arg special is that they are still holding out for their style amidst all the pressures to win at all costs. Brazil has long lost that battle, (but I suspect if they keep going down the route they are– they’ll be calling back all the prodigal ronaldos to save them).

Golazo — with all due respect, you’re going to need a lot more than an unpaid internship to be able to say that you know more about football than Basile does.

just because we may have the most talent in the world means we must win every single match. a team needs good chemistry, discipline, organization and desire in order to win. we can’t win on just individual talent. our game plan definately had faults. the long ball over the top just could not work without a true #9. yes riquelme was off so then we should have a plan B and not let him play 90 minutes. i saw some players out there just going through the motions. maxi was completely invisible where is luch. our defence does not look organised. burdisso and heinze needs to be dropped to the bench. we could play with 3 central defenders micho, colo, gonzalo. i hope our game plan against brazil will be to play for a draw because we so vunarable right now. but if we can play some good defence limit their chances and have a good result we should be able to build some confidence.

And everyone just drop it,it doesn’t matter now we need to focus on Brazil, This is all good for the NT so they can learn from there mistakes(hopefully) and Pacalico looks like he is something for the next world cup. I remember when he played in Copa America he did really well in the 30 minutes he did play. And yesterday proved he is good enough to play for the NT.

I think Basile will play to win against Brazil because there is a fire under his ass and a better way to shut everyone up (including me) is a win over Brazil in there home stadium.

My formation that I would like to see is:
————-Carizo——————-
Burdisso——–Coloccini—–Rodriguez——Heinze
—————Mascherano—————
Messsi———-Gago————Rodríguez
———-Palacio——Aguero———–

Golazo,
Dunga also will alsoo have ” a fire under his ass” because he just
lost yesterday. As Asil stated, it will be a game of chess
played by the managers. The one with
the element of surprise will win.

hello all

so last night we saw a SLOW argentina and a team that didnt seem hungry for glory. I keep insisting that Riquelme is too slow of a player for the NT. Yesterday he was just a waste of a man on the field. Another major problem we have is that we need a “9″ (striker). Aguero and Messi are both “10″ and they play exceptionally getting te ball near the area but a striker is missing to put it inside the net…

I think Veron played the best. I still dont understand why not that many people like him playing for the NT.. Can anyone explain?

For Wed Basile called Bottinelli to replace Demichelis. Like mentioned above, Mascherano will make it. Veron is in very bad shape “casi descartado” .

To beat brazil we need speed and huevos. Its gonna be a tough game, but we can do it

VAMOS ARGENTINA!

Well great comments and of course it is always a pleasure to hear all opinions since that is what they are opinons so dont take things to personel. I paid 30 bucks and watched this game with my 12 year old son who by the way is on the olympic deveplpement team and plays the role of enganche. His comment was that everytime one of our forwards got the ball thre were two or three defenders marking him. His question was why did that not leave some argys open? The answer to this question is the key to us winning games against defensive minded teams. Here is what my son Lucas and I came up with.

1. We never attack with much speed as to surprise the opposition and put our forwards in situations were getting by one defender would create a goal scoring situation.

2. Messi and aguero have speed and offensive skill in the game yesterday until late in the game there was no one else on the pitch to combine with.
3. Even though we had only three defenders we did not attack with sufficient numbers.
4. Overall team speed was to slow.

How to solve? I am not advocating younger but at this level we have to be faster. WIth Veron Riquelme Heinze and yes even Zanetti where is the team speed? Other then Aguero and Messi we could not lead anyone on a pass because the defender would run right by them. Riquleme can play but with speed around him. Even mascherano saw this and starting pushing up. I think the time has come to play with Messi in the midfield and aguero as the second striker along side lopez or cavenaggi. We also have to have Lucho back on the team as he has strength and speed and skill.

Carrizzo
Gonzalo Demichillis Garay

Gago Mascherano

Messi Riquelme Lucho

Aguero
Cavenaggi

Speed and skill . We have the players to have it all so why settle for slow and skill when you can have both.

Subs Cambiasso Di Maria Lavennizi Collocini Tevez If Riquelme is having a bad game pull him out at half and push gago up by putting in collocinni or sub in lavenzzi or tevez for a spark. We have all the talent in the world but the line ups that basile is using allow the other teams to sit back and play defense and it allows them to mark aguero and messi with two or three players. Time for a more agreesive line up with players that can play both offense and defense. What good does it do to have Two slow offesinve creators on the pitch at the same time? It is time to move forward and i believe the Riquleme should be the only slow guy out there. What is he suppose to do? Feed a thru ball to the streaking Zanetti or over lapping Veron? Come on basile my son is right if messi and Aguero have two guys on them other should be open. lets put guys on the field that can make the other team pay when they double and triple team our forwards.

Vamos Argentina!! By the way in the last world cup we played a 44 2 but wiht Sorin pushing up all the time it was like a 3 5 2 on offense.. When teams defend in numbers you have to have the offensive numbers to make them pay for those double teams just like in basketball when you double team it leaves someone open for a shot. I want teams to fear who they will leave open not think oh all we have to do is mark ageuro and messi out of the game and no one else will hurt us.

Also it is an embarrasment for the number one team in the world to be playing a home game on a pitch like that.

Oh yess and we will beat Brasil on Wednesday.

To gain positive result against Brazil, is to play tough in midfield. Reasons:

1) To minimize pressure on our defense. Our CBs have been moving around a lot to plug the midfield which result improper set of our D. So our CB need to stay home more.
2) Allow Riquelme and Messi to do their thing to make the defense busy.
3) To prevent Brazil who love to disrupt our rhythm, especially against Riquelme
4) Provide width against Brazil’s flank attacks.
5) provoke opponent’s mistakes

3-5-2 is meant for that, hopefully. But it’s still new to us, that’s why we disorganized.

Someone please answer my questions of the Argentina NT. I’m a huge fan of Argentina. They played AMAZING in the world cup, what the hell is happening now. I remember Crespo was an amazing #9, why doesn’t Basile call him up, he’s not THAT old and he’s the best Argentinean poacher there is. The way Crespo plays, he doesn’t run much, he ‘poaches’ so age doesn’t have much effect on his performance. I think Crespo should play primary striker and aguero or tevez or saviola play as secondary and then Messi and Riquelme if healthy behind them. This worked at the World Cup and should work now. Cruz is just terrible, just cause he got some lucky goals on Inter doesn’t mean he should make the NT. The slowest, dumbest striker I’ve ever seen. My point is, we NEED height and some physical presence in the box. We can’t have 2 midgets like aguero and tevez in the front, every team needs a primary striker. I mean, c’mon, aguero or tevez are never gonna head in a corner kick, Crespo is, and that’s his specialty. He had tons of those with Inter in the 07 season. Tell me what you guys think, I’m going to the World Cup in SA and I want Argentina to win. They’ve GOT TO.

‘I know Boca is a Dynasty but Roman wasn’t there for the first four title, I”m pretty sure he was playing in Europe.’

Eh what? Boca won 4 libertadores cups this decade, of those 4 Roman won 3.

We are right there with you, Argentina fan.

Unfortunatley, Crespo didn’t play regularly for Inter this year, and as such Basile has shown reservations for calling him up.

I do agree that many of the older players probably need to be fazed out. I’m not sure why Heinze is used so much, etc. Riquelme is a different issue. He gets a lot of stick because he is so important. I don’t envy him, because the second he shows that he is a human being, then the claws come out.

Crespo didn’t play this season, I’ve heard that ROma want him? I’m not sure waht Mourinho will do with him. Saviola needs to get out of REal Madrid ASAP. And Aimar needs to have a complete turn around season, because his national career seems caput, which is a great shame.

Thanks for the quick response Alexa

Nice post toddutah: you said what I was trying to say.
Ken, dude, all I was pointing out were the tactical deficiencies in last nights game. Read my posts, that’s all I was doing. That and showing concern because for the first time in years I saw so few positives in what Argentina were doing. I was upset because this does not need to be the case; Argentina have other players to plug those gaps and I’m hoping that will be the case. I know Veron has played well at Estudiantes and that’s why he was called up: I’m not stupid. I merely questioned why he was played alongside Riquelme with two other central midfielders in front of three central defenders. That’s not me being negative or naive: that’s just simple football tactics and I hope to never see it again.
And, believe me, I know about the corrupting influence of money and suspicious investments in football. I stopped following club football becaue of it. And yes it is a tragedy that this is invading international football too. Hell, I don’t even like it when a non-developing country hires a foreign coach (its using economy to gain an unfair advantage, I think).
In closing, I wish for Argentina to beat Brazil this wednesday. Of course they can do it but after last night lessons need to be learnt. That’s all I was saying. Honest.

@akk
Sorry, there’s nothing here on my end that I can do, and your name doesn’t appear in the blocked list. They did some updates on the site prior to the Euros and there are still a few kinks to work out.

And to add my two cents to everyone else, I agree with some of you that this over-reacting has got to calm down. Sure the team didn’t play well and it was frustrating to see so many opportunities wasted, but this was the first meaningful qualifier together in some time with everyone together, and to come away with a point from a very good Ecuador side is not the end of the world.

If they can beat Brazil on Wednesday, and based on what I saw from both this past weekend that is certainly possible, Argentina should be in sound position in 2nd, as Paraguay should do away with Bolivia, and Colombia will have to go to Ecuador to get a result.

Felipe, there was nothing wrong with what you said, everyone has a right to their opinion whether someone else agrees with it or not.

Toddutah, i like your team but Basile hasn’t called up either Garay or Lucho and Demichelis is suspended for the Brazil game.

Thanks daystar. Between you and me I’ve never doubted my opinions (wink, wink)

At the end of the day, we all say what we think are the mistakes made, but it doesn’t make the smallest bit of difference because we are not the coach, we are all just voicing our opinions and having a good old discussion/debate.
We all know that having seen us play against Ecuador, Dunga will in all probability employ the same tactics, so what will be interesting to see is how Basile counters this, hopefully he will surprise us all. Our midfield is where we will lose or win this game coz i think Dunga will go for a 5 man midfield. He is under just as much pressure as Basile to get a result.

One more thing i think Pato needs to stay nearer his line, nearly everytime he concedes he’s about 5 yards off his line.

Some interesting news ‘Sergio Kun Aguero could be Sandro Rossell’s big presidential promise to Barcelona: elect Rossell and he’ll move to sign the young striker’, an artcle in El Confidencial states, how much truth there is to this i don’t know, it all depends on what happens with Joan Laporta.

I wonder if Dunga will be under more pressure to make a good showing, as in, make sure that Brazil looks good for their home fans. I would assume that the fans in the stadium would hate to see Brazil play the way they did in the Copa America final. I know they prefer results, but there is a different kind of pressure playing at home — you have to look good.

(remember these are fans who whistled Brazil off the pitch in half time when they played against Ecuador, and I think that they were beating us like 2-0 at the time)

Felipe,
You did great. Please
do not feel bad about
anything dude.
Everyone is entitled to
his/her opinion, but
facts stand alone.
Keep posting dude,
ken

So Jonathan Bottinelli will most likely replace Demichelis in defense. Veron is ruled out and Mascherano is doubtful. Nonone else has been called up. This is a little stressful to say the least. I think Battaglia will start instead of Mascherano. Ever is available as well.

I don’t know about Botinelli. I really hope Zanetti replaces Heinze on the left, with Coloccini coming in for Demichelis.

Other than that I guess we wait.

For the record – Gago is sheer class. He’s a one touch player. He always knows his next move before he even receives the ball, and as soon as he gets it – he’s already passed it to someone who’s open. Yesterday he had to run with the ball more in order to keep possession – but I think he performed exceptionally well.

Well, that’s settled then. On to Wednesday.

Felipe,
please never take anything
personal. The purpose of this blog is just
meant to have a casual
conversation/discussion
because we all love Argentina football.
Keep in touch,
take care of yourself,
ken

Brazil vs Argie 1-3

Well my line up was meant long term and I stand by it as what i see as the strongest fastest most skilled team in the world but as for this week against brasil it is different because some of the players I like are not available so here goes for starting line up agaisnt brasil.

carizzo

Zanetti Colocini Burdisso Heinze

Gago

Messi Riquelme Maxi

Aguero

Palacio

Like I said not my fav line up but that is who we have to work with.

Gonzalo rodriguez in the centre with Collocini would be better, but i think that Basile has brought in Bottinelli in place of Demichelis.

I’ve just watched the game. I don’t have much to say as the same problems that I always mention on the blog appear all the time now (deficient defending system, …). I won’t have the time to read the million messages here on the blog.

I told you ALEXA that your Ecuador is a very physical and clever defending team with their 4-1-4-1. But I wonder what could have happened to us against a team like Holland for example?

What I think about the game:

- Despite being lucky with the very late launch of excellent Palacio, Basile seemed VERY passive concerning the substitution of Mascherano! 20 minutes to substitute an essential player who was suffering and unable to run & shoot, before Brazil seems a lot!
- Argentina attacking & defending systems are the same. We attack 3-4-1-2 & defend 3-4-1-2. This is bad. Incorrect use of 3-5-2, for the third time consecutively (in attack & in defence). We counter attacked more than created with movments & possession. No shots in the 80 first minutes.
- When Ecuador scored their magnificent gol, Basile changed the traditional offensive system (3-5-2) by the traditional defensive one in order to attack (4-3-1-2)…
- Players are tired (thank you AFA)
- Some players are too old and only have a name (Veron, ..) (Causes: Renova, Basile’s short term objectives)
- Some players are out of form (Riquelme). No bench, as usual. No Lucho, no Aimar, no Valeri, no sub when Roman can’t perform well.
- A #9 only at the 70th minute
- Veron & Burdisso long passes useless, as usual (Calling Veron was a shame, starting Burdisso not constructive).
- De Michelis won’t play against Brazil. It’s OK, we have Colo and Gonzalo. The problems are tactical & collective. These are the ones to solve.
- At the end, Argentina was completely dependant on Messi, in a pure mess, the traditional saver of the whole world when Argentina loses.
- Ecuador should have won because they had a legal penalty refused from the referee.

It’s sad to see that Pekerman’s players are totally different under the Basile era. They don’t even move. They are like ghosts. After 2 years, Argentina doesn’t dance anymore

Maxi,
Great to hear from you. What do you predict
for Wednesday in terms of score?
Did you watch the Brazil game? thanks
Ken

MAxi – Thanks for those comments. I would agree with what you wrote there.

Football fans have the maturity of middle school girls. Everywhere. Look what’s happening at Euro Cup, all of a sudden mediocre to good players are tripling in value after three games! Moods change so quickly in the world of football.

I’m sure that everyone knows – but Brazilian fans and press are even more upset about their team than Arg.

I saw highlights of the Brazil Paraguay game. Brazil was lucky that they didn’t lose 3-0 (in one moment cabanas completely beat the goalie and was unlucky to hit the post). And also – Venezuela tied Uruguay! So the qualifiers are getting very competitive all around.

Hey – remember last year — when Barcelona and Real Madrid were both eliminated from the CL, and then they had to play each other in the very next week? And everybody thought that the game would be played badly, but then it turned into the game of the year (and the performance of the year by Messi?). I’m think –OK hoping — that that’s what will happen in the Brazil/Arg game.
Although I would rather Arg just beat them outright. But that’s just me.

I’ve read in some brazil forums that some people actually want Arg to win so that they can get rid of Dunga once and for all. Such drama for a qualifier!

By the way, Albo, I hope you are around for the Brazil game. We need your voice of reason…

In all honesty, people are failing to miss the point here, and its so clear to realise! Riquelme, special, special indeed, no doubt, but how do you expect to play 4 friendly matches, Guatemala, Egypt, Mexico & USA without Roman, play a completely different way, and then come the qualifiers, change everything back round to play through him again! the same can be said about Veron! his long range passing was non-existent in the 4 games, Basile needs to fix up, either do it 1 way or another! Play them in the friendlies! If they want to play for their clubs, tell the flaming players to have to accept getting used to putting country before club! its not a joke anymore! the whole team looked disjointed, confused and not knowing what to do, usually chasing a game, we look to Riquelme, everybody just went back to thinking they were without him! Its ruined the whole team flow, rythm, style of play, you name it!!!!

Nice comments Addy,
What score do you predict for Wednesday?

Many people have been talking about this issue, if tangentially. Basile is forced to do these gigs by the Argentina FA (as all national coaches are). International friendly fixtures follow the European calendar, not the South American calendar. Riquelme was in the middle of the Libertadores semifinals and the end of the clausura when Arg was playing in the US.

I think that the Arg national team can benefit tremendously from Riquelme being in Argentina, as opposed to Europe. But this situation is an area where problems doubtlessly arise.

It should be noted that Riquelme stepped right into the Copa America from the Boca schedule, and he didn;t miss a beat, and he looked phenomenal, and made the team look phenomenal, very quickly. He has that ability.

But he was just sick (with that stomach flu/amoeba thing – i read somehwere that he lost a lot of weight because of it) and injured this time out. He’s not fit. It’s a huge concern for the Brazil game.

See this is what I don’t get. If Roman was sick and unfit then: WHY DID HE PLAY? Before the game there was even talk by Basile that he would let Roman rest and only let him play against Brazil or as a sub. This begs the question, why didn’t he? Because thinking you’re fit and actually being 100% isn’t the same thing. Basile and Roman take equal blame here.

————-Carrizo————-
Zanetti–Gonzalo–Coloccini-Heinze
———Battaglia–Gago———-
Messi————————-Maxi
——–Kun———Lopez———

I would start like this against Brasil.

I quickly started to read all the comments above about the Ecuador game. I stopped because it’s always the same thing here. Everybody destroys players & coach when there isn’t the right result. All the problems I’ve spoken about were a bit ignored in the recent past and are now suddenly understood. It’s strange. The problems that appeared against Mexico (4-1) were the same than the ones against USA (0-0) & Ecuador (1-1). The difference was the score and this biased people. I wasn’t complaining about the Mexican game for nothing. For me, last game was a defeat, nothing more.

KEN,
Concerning the Brazil game, I don’t know. I don’t need to wait for it to be pessimistic. Even if we win 4-0, it will mean nothing because the tactical, collective & individual problems will still be there. This is why I’m not even expecting it anymore. If Brazil is very realistic like they have always been against us, we will lose again. Hopefully, the Brazilians are also “coached” by RENOVA & are over-rated. The difference is that, unlike us, they have a good tactician: Dunga. Anyway, I will support Argentina like never before. The AFA bastards & their Boca muppet are not going to change my mind.

We all saw that learning how to play 3-5-2 needs lots of time. Pekerman needed 3 years. Basile thinks he’ll need just 15 days before Brazil. No it doesn’t work like this. Especially when you don’t even know how to defend with 3-5-2 and with NEW players who never play with the NT (Veron). Changing the system into 4-5-1 (with Lucho left winger!) or 3-5-3 (!) like some have mentioned here, thinking that it will bring us to heaven makes me laugh. We are not in a videogame.

If I was the new AFA president, I would offer a golden contract to available Pekerman, assistant Tocalli & Simeone or Batigol to boost the mental of our boys. Of course you wont have this luck : (

MARADONA, Hahahahah. It’s funny how you defend Riquelme and even insult people who attack him. You were doing exactly the opposite thing 2 or 3 years ago. Funny & always constructive comments.

DEBASISH, AIMAR10 & the bloggers I respect, I’ll read what you said another day (don’t have time now). DEBASISH, Concerning DeMichelis covering Heinze some times too much, I’m sure Basile asked Gabi to go up and come in midfield sometimes. That’s why he was sometimes in danger on counter attacks. This had a cost: DeMichelis will not be here against Brazil : (

Last things, we didn’t play nice futbol against Ecuador because:

- We didn’t have a midfield. Incredible when playing 3-5-2!
- Veron & Burdisso threw the balls away with their stupid long passes
- Veron didn’t build with short passes
- We didn’t try to be calm and keep possession. No tempo. The slow players Veron, Roman weren’t compatible with energetic Aguero or Messi. Merging classic music with Rock is risky. I want tango with Messi dictated by Roman. He needs to learn it. It seemed that we were trying to play very fast like Arsenal sometimes. It’s not our style.
- We were unable to manage to Ecuadorian 4-1-4-1 pressing
- Riquelme is dead. AFA and BASILE are killing him. He played more as a #9,5 against Ecuador. His lack of ambition staying at home will not help neither if he’ll be fit one day, against Europeans.
- We didn’t have a bench (thank you Basile, does Renova cares about Gutierrez or Sosa)
- Aguero was alone upfront and out of position
- Messi is individual

You all know what I think about the defensive problems & problems in general.

Against Brazil, I wouldn’t hesitate to play like this. It’s to late to train our players with 3-5-2 (Basile doesn’t even use it well). They have been used with 4-3-1-2 for 2 years so lets use it this time? With the group Basile has called, you are a bit trapped (no bench, Roman & Masche unfit, only Heinze as our LSW, no bench, …)

ATTACKING:

———–Carizzo———-
Zabaleta-Gonzalo-Colo-Heinze
–Zanetti–Cambiasso–Maxi–
————Gago————
—–Messi——————
————-Cavenaghi——

DEFENDING:

———–Carizzo———-
Zabaleta-Gonzalo-Colo-Heinze
Zanetti-Gago-Cambiasso–Maxi
—–Messi——————
———-Cavenaghi———

This will not happen.

Vamos Argentina. I’m a muppet too. A simple Renova consumer that loves his tea

Maxi,
thanks for all your comments. Regarding Maradona,
I also notice his 180 degrees turn in now defending
Riquelme. You are basically saying Dunga
is a better chess player than Basile. Under
these circumstances there will not
be any tango. We will be screwed for sure.
But miracles do happen. So let us be hopeful
until the fat lady sings… thanks Maxi
for sharing your insights.
Keep posting,
cheers,
ken

Basile is walking a political tightrope by centering his team around Riquelme (you see, even on this board, which is overwhelmingly pro-Riquelme, how quickly the claws come out against him when problems arise.). The decision to include or not include Riquelme isn’t something that Basile takes lightly.

The idea would always have been that the team needed Riquelme to be on the pitch against Ecuador at least as a warm up for the Brazil game.

GUYS!
I am excited about the Brazil game. The adrenalin has started flowing .

I really wish we win. At least a draw. Don’t want to get whipped again. So worried about the defensive line. Will write in details.

Just came to work

There will always be controversy surrounding Riquelme, because he is the cornerstone of our team. Anyone who is a focal point for their team is controversial because they have their admirers and their detractors. When they play well everyone wax’s lyrical about them and when they don’t everyone takes shots at them.
Maxi we all know the problems that you have stated but there isn’t anything we can do about them.
Basile is in no man’s land, he can’t seem to decide one way or the other on the system to play, on top of that the players he has selected are not sufficient for these matches. There’s noreplacement for Riquelme if we don’t play him because we haven’t called anyone up. Veron is out of Wednesday’s match which i have to say is quite fortuitous coz now Veron won’t be able to play.
In my mind, i think we might do well with a 4 2 3 1 formation, tell me what you guys think, coz i think our midfield needs to be stronger:
If Riquelme plays:
Carrizo/Pato
Burdisso/Collocini Collocni/Bottinelli Rodriguez Zanetti
Gago Mascherano(depending if he is ok to play)/Banega
Messi Riquelme Aguero
Palacio

If Riquelme doesn’t play:
Carrizo/Pato
Burdisso/Collocini Collocini/Botinelli Rodriguez Zanetti
Gago Mascherano/Banega
Maxi Messi Aguero
Palacio

Going forwards we change to 4 5 1, and coming back we become a 4 4 1 1.

I reckon Dunga will play pretty much like the last time that we met with 5 in the midfield and counterattack. We’ve got to come out quicker than we have been doing in the last few games. And an early goal would be good because then they will have to come out and we will get space to play in. We can’t allow them to settle, we have to close them down quickly, and i really hope that Basile lights up a fire in our bellies, and we come out calm, collected, determined and clinical.

Daystar, I agree with you. I think Dunga will do just the same as he kinda knows we will do no different either. For any country in this world, it is quite easy to play Argentina. They always know what we are going to do. So tactically there is not much challenge. Issue is, if the opponent has the skill, strength, stamina to compete or not. if YES, they always hold a very good chance. We have extremely brilliant individuals, which wins games for us.

I can’t wait for this match. I really want to see if we can lift our spirits up and give them a well deserved spanking!! I don’t have much faith in Basile as a tactician (he is slower than a snail when it comes to realizing the need, adapting to the changes and reacting to situations) , but I do have a lot of faith in many of our players to perform the extraordinary once in a while!!!

I hope to see Gago and Cavenaghi/Palacio warrant a start.
Here’s one of my pipe dreams:

Carrizo
Zabaleta- Gonzalo – Colo
Zanetti – Masche
Gago – Riquelme – Maxi
Messi
Cavenaghi

If Riquelme is ineffective in the first half, sub him with aguero. Gago moves to the center with messi moving to his position on the flank. Aguero takes over Messi’s position as a CF.

Like I mentioned, if I see Cruz start, excuse me for disappearing for a while from the blog as I’ll probably check myself into a hospital due to depression. Do come visit me.

I have faith!!!
MaxiLopez , Deb, Ken, Albo , Asil, Alexa, Aurelius- excellent discussions! keep it coming!

PS – did you see the germany vs austria match folks , and Mario Gomez’s miss??? I think the dude’s idol is Julio Cruz or something!! What a miss that was!

For once we need to play as a collective, with one another and for one another. Some good news Mascherano is fit to play.

Vick, Cavenaghi is not in the squad, which is why i omitted him from my suggested line-ups. Palacio and Cruz are in the squad.

What do you guys think of the 4 2 3 1 formations that i suggested.
With both Aguero and Messi coming in from either flank, if we can get the ball upto them quite quickly we can have balls played in behind the Brazilian defense for Palacio to latch onto and slot in and also it takes some of the pressure off Riquelme. Aguero and Messi can also swap sides and cause havoc. Gago and Mascherano just behind them in support and if needed whoever is on the left/right hand side of our defense to help out sparingly.
If Riguelme doesn’t play, then Messi takes the central position wth Aguero and Maxi on either side hitting the Brazilians with pace.
If we play as a team then 8 players going forward and 9 players to defend leaving Palacio upfront.

DAY1STAR,
We’ve spoken about 4-5-1 systems many times. It would work well and fit perfectly with the qualities of our group. But stop dreaming, it’s useless to talk about it. Basile will never play like this. I don’t even think Argentina has ever played like this (only against Peru).

In a more detail note…

I think we we have 2 different problems.

1. Tactical Problem – Basile is the root cause of the issue. I understand there could be RENOVA or AFA behind it, but Basile is the interface to us and to the rest of the world when it comes to Argetina NT football. Do I need to care of anything else? That’s his job. He is suppose to build a team that wins and plays beautifully. That’s what he gets paid for. I do not need to know anything else. We are a primarily winning team. We also play nice. Thats why we are here. Most of us do not quite agree to Basile’s tactics of lack of it. We have beaten the subject to death with various options and suggestions. We have discussed formations that are different and contradicting to Basile’s choice. Here is my deal for the umpteenth time for the Brazil game. If I was in Basile’s position, I would play a 4-3-1-2 tomorrow. This is based on the thrashing we have got last 3 times.

—————-Carrizo—————-
Zanetti-Gonzalo-Coloccinni- Heinze
Maxi——–Mascherano——-Gago
————Riquelme————–
——-Messi——–Aguero—–

2. Skillset issue – Football players in our team not skilled enough. There are plenty of them. Firstly, GK. No point talking more. We do not have a world class GK. Period. Should try Carizzo. I believe Ustari is very ordinary too. Full backs and real slow defense. Hopefully, we will have something coming up. Here again Basile drops the ball. One of his job is to build a team. He does not have too much time is crap. That is true for all NT managers. Still someone wins the WC. Someone wins Copa. Someone will win Euro. Basile has been biased and looks like he has faith in Boca players. Pato, Insua etc, proves the fact. Point is even if Basile is a great manager, we do have some weak links, like Pato, Heinze, Burdisso etc. Lets say the manager has decided on the formation. Now he is wearing the hat of picking his team based on skill set. Now if I try to think what Mourinho, Benitez, Wengner, SAF, Rijkard would do. I do not think they would pick Pato. They would have groomed someone by now. Carizzo could have had 4-5 caps in recent past. These managers would have created some player out of some others. One name comes to mind Maxi Rodriguez. Could have him in full back, like Sorin. This opens up a place for Lucho in the mid field. I would drop Heinze. I would love to use Maxi like Mourinho did with Essien or Benitez is doing with DIrk Kyut. I do not know whether it will succeed. I believe YES, because of Maxi’s abilities. Mind you I am not making him a defender. I think most will understand what I mean. But Basile won’t try anything like that. So in my opinion he do not have the ability to choose people with right skill set.

According to Brazilian newspater Lance 82% of people inquired believe Argentina will defeat Brazil this Wednesdday .

Anyways we should play a 4-5-1 like day1star sugested mainly because I think it will be effective against a Brazil that will come at us from all directions mainly the wings. With a 4-5-1 we could attack 2-4-4 with Messi on the right Aguero/Palacio on the left. If this formation is correctly used it could easily counter Brazil’s diamond formation 4-3-1-2 or 4-1-3-2.a

Argentina – Brazil Rivalery Stats:

Since their first match in 1914, the national teams have played 88 matches counting friendlies, World Cup, and other official competitions (excluding matches between youth sides).

Even though there is a difference depending on whether the Argentine Football Association (AFA) or the Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF) does the counting, the near-balance is not in dispute. Of the 92 matches played between both national teams, 23 were draws, 35 were Brazilian victories and 34 for Argentina, with 149 goals for Argentina and 145 for Brazil. Only counting World Cup matches Brazil is ahead with 2 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss, whereas in the Copa América, Argentina has 15 victories, 7 draws and 8 defeats. Of 12 friendly matches, 5 were for Brazil, 3 for Argentina and 4 were draws. Even though Argentina has led the statistics since the first match between the two countries in 1914, the 1970s proved to be dark times for Argentina, with 6 defeats, 4 draws and no victories. Biggest wins are, for Argentina 6–1 (at home in Buenos Aires, 1940) and 1–5 (away at Rio de Janeiro, 1939), for Brazil 6–2 (at home in Rio de Janeiro, 1945 and 1960) and 1–4 (away at Buenos Aires, 1960).[2]

Argentina and Brazil’s most recent match took place on July 15, 2007 at Estadio José Pachencho Romero in Maracaibo, Venezuela and was the final match of Copa América 2007 which Brazil won by the score of 3-0. The first goal was scored by Julio Baptista, while the second one was an own goal by Roberto Ayala after a pass attempt by Brazil’s Daniel Alves, who also scored the last goal.

Maxi, even i know that it is very unlikely that Basile will play the formation i suggested, but in my mind it’s one that solves most of our problems. 4 3 1 2 relies too much on Riquelme performing to his best and the rest of the team compensating for him, even Messi isn’t ready for that 1 role yet. 4 2 3 1 makes us defensively more solid while at the same time giving our players more attacking options. Plus i think it’s a formation that Dunga won’t expect us to play.

Here i think is time for pato out from the national team. This is bcoz Basile should give Carizzo or Ustari to play.Other Heinze,Veron, and others.If not the 2002 wcup disaster will remain.2002 Argentina bring the player has been expired.For me the good impact for Argentina in attacking is Messi,Aguero&Tevez.But Tevez and Messi cannot be combind bcoz it is really clash combination.I think is a good for Messi,Aguero&Palacio or Messi,Aguero&Higuain.For Tevez is good for him to play with Crespo or Saviola,but really dissapointed bcoz saviola did not play many game for Real Madrid He is a really good finisher after Crespo.I think Saviola must out from Madrid and find other club who can give him to play many game.Other than that i like Zanetti but i don’t think he will at the wcup 2010.Here i don’t know what to say, i hope Basile out and out and out.I will never give up support Argentina but i give up with the coach.Plzz welcome Batistuta,Pasarella or Maradona.Now believe we really have a good player but don’t have a good coach.

If we lose this game we can slip to fourth or fifth in the table depending on other games.

Thats true Golazo. Suddenly we can get into a state of “struggle to qualify”.

I was trying to get the gist of an article i read on OLE, which was talking with regards to Messi’s participation in the Olymics, i’m not sure but i think it was something about Barcelona trying to stop him from participating and writing to the AFA with regards to this. Am i right, can someone please clarify, Albo, Aurelius anyone?

Barcelona have no obligation to let Messi play the Olympics since it’s not a FIFA sanctioned event. Messi wants to play but his club has the final word and are planning on not giving him the time off to do so. Guardiola has said that he would rather not let him play.

Barcelona are really pitiful, they say that they need Messi for the CL qualifiers and the start of the Spanish season so they don’t want him to play in the Olympics. The Olympics finish on the 23rd, he would only miss the first leg and the spanish league is not starting til the end of August, they can’t do without him for one match when it is his desire to play?

The Olympics are a FIFA sanctioned event.

Thanx Mauro.

http://football.uk.reuters.com/european/news/L17258601.php

GOLAZO,
“Veron Pato and Zanetti should all retire from international play. Basile needs to play carrizo. The only forwards we have on the bench are Pacalico and Cruz. No Cavenaghi or Lopez. We need stop calling these washed up players to the nt”.
Tell me, how many years have we been saying this? 2? It’s terrible with Basile. Problems are never solved. Tactically for example, Basile has used a deficient 4-3-1-2 for 2 years. What was his solution? Not to correct it with a better positioning of the side midfielders and a correct defending system, but to simply forget it and play 3-5-2. What will happen next? Now that the tactical problems have appeared, will he try 4-5-1? Where are we going?

ALEXA,
I love Riquelme as much as you do. Please stop defending him when someone criticizes him because it will never end. We don’t understand these people. Roman was injured and played for his country because he was asked for by Basile, and people still destroy him. These people have not seen WC 2006 the way we did…

ALEXA,
“Arg had to face Ecuador with no real time to preapre”. Same goes for Ecuador. The field was the same for both teams either, ALBO, KRIS. No excuses. We have the most creative players whatever the state of the pitch is.

GOLAZO,
“that was the worst thing that could happen palacio saved Basiles’ ass big time and now we are still gonna have a shit coach picking shit old players over players in there prime…”
Veron is not going to play against Brazil. I would have loved to see Basile’s first choices starting. Excellent Gago, the sub, will take his place.

Mascherano is going to play, even unfit. In one month he’ll be in China.
They are going to destroy him. Like Messi.

GOLAZO,
“Roman plays like shit in games that are crucial”. Wrong.

AURELIUS,
I agree with your posts. Did you notice the lack of movments?? Incredible. Maxi was staying on his left flank, limited, like if Basile had told him “stay on the left and be careful in defence”. Reminding the fantastic 2006 movements of Maxi, Chuchu or Lucho, Saviola, Sorin dancing and keeping the ball is painfull now… I strongly believe that all this is linked to Basile’s defending system. We really need to come back to Pekerman’s 4-1-4-1 (also because our boys are tired & unfit). Our players & Basile are afraid to move and frightened of counter attacks too. Please Basile, react.

ALBO,
“Hey, is this really the end of the world? “A bit yes. A tactical disaster. The tactical result of 2 years. I don’t know why I feel like this. It’s not difficult to see that nothing has changed after the 2 friendlies in the States. Nothing has been corrected. Nothing has ever been corrected by Basile. What has been corrected since Copa final? Nothing, we just have kicked the problems away by changing the system.

AURELIUS,
“Messi can play the enganche as far as I’m concerned”. This is the worst thing to do offensively. A huge mistake.

AURELIUS,
HOW do you defend with your system? It is a 4-3-1-2 with Lavezzi as the left midfielder right?

It’s funny to read that we “should” play at la bombonera, a stadium where the security is optional. Anyway, Aguilar decides…

BASILE: “‘We played well in our last games and today we didn’t. There’s not much to add”. Which games? Mexico? USA? What a bad joke…

FELIPE,
“But last night wasn’t like England in 2005, Croatia in 2006 or Germany in the World Cup where Argentina played well before throwing it away. They didn’t play well last night. I wanted them to but they didn’t”. Yes.

KEN,
The Renova issue is negative on the long term, it’s absolutely true. I don’t think we can win a WC if Renova injure Riquelme, Mascherano, Zanetti for example. Did you watch them yesterday? They were ghosts! They are injured, not fit, tired. What we saw yesterday is the consequence of making our players travel & play every 2 months on each continent of the planet (friendlies in Melbourne, Cairo, San Diego, …). Riquelme, Mascherano, Gago, Zanetti, DeMichelis, Heinze, Maxi, Messi, Cruz, Aguero are players that have been affected by this (Tevez doesn’t even wanna play against Brazil…). I’m not even talking about 3 of them going in the Chinese pollution for the Olympics (their season is gonna be a physical/psycho nightmare next year).
But FELIPE is trying to say is that, like Dunga have proven before, you can get results with tired/average players if your collective way of playing is efficient & clever (Italy 2006). Basile has failed to do this for 2 years now.

KEN,
Do you remember that Grondona tried to make Pekerman change his mind after revealing the WC list including Ustari instead of Lux? Just a little face of the iceberg… We don’t know the AFA rules.

DAY1STAR,
We will always rely on Riquelme, whatever the system we use. He’s the brain of the team. A team is always dependent on his best players.

ASKK,
You can’t play against Brazil without preparing your system before. Basile has never tested 4-5-1. Forget about it. I’m sure Basile is going to come back to the 4-3-1-2 against Brazil. Against Ecuador he showed us he was not confident in his use of the 3-5-2 at half time. He only knows to coach 4-3-1-2.

Cruz could start instead of Aguero

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/overseas/other/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=international_feed/08/06/17/SOCCER_Bra-Brazil_Preview.html&TEAMHD=foreign

Debasish,
Of course Cruz is gonna start. We need a strong & tall player to face Juan & Lucio.

day1star

Where did you read that Cavenaghi isn’t with the squad anymore? So where did he go then…

I always get this sinking/empty feeling in my stomach whenever Argentina plays Brazil. I just can’t seem to be inspired or be positive. I hope the players don’t feel like me.

Our friend Ljubos Michel has just killed France.

Actually the team has not been announced, the practice sessions have been behind closed doors. No one knows for sure who is going to start and what formation we will be playing in, but what has been announced is that Collocini will be playing and so will Gago.
James he’s not in any of the photos of the squad training prior to the Ecuador game, but the other thing is if he had been with the squad i would have expected him to be on the bench.

Basile in an interview said he would play a more defensive formation against Brazil, so that would mean not the 4 3 1 2.

Why doesnt Holland, AKA. Netherlands let Romania win. Letting the Italians through the next round is the stupidest thing any team can do, specially when you control that result.

Amazing. Tonight’s FRA-ITA is similar to ARG-GER. I’m watching the game as a neutral spectator and the refereeing is unbelievable. Ljubos Michel is killing France. He’s one of the biggest bastard that futbol has ever known. Offsides not whistled, fictive yellow cards, red card unjustified, rythm of the game decided by the referee, … France had no chances…

red card unjustified? I thought Abidal tackled from the back

I will be shocked if Holland wins the Euro Cup. They have done this so many times over – promise at the beginning but not deliver. This Euro Cup is so strange. The play manages to be moth grim and electric. I can’t really describe it.

Arg has a good chance to beat Brazil. Heads up!

Holland may have peaked too early in this tournament. Look for the rest of their matches to be a lot less flashy. France was their Serbia-Montenegro.

My expectations for the Argentina-Brazil match have been deflated somewhat. With the loss of DeMichelis and Veron, the best player we had on Sunday, I feel like we are fielding an alternate squad. It might also be because I don’t agree with the inclusion of Cruz in the squad and the fact that Tevez is not available for these matches. I hate that Maxi is playing on the left, I feel it’s a waste to put him on that side of the pitch when the whole world knows he plays on the right. And I’m not convinced that Gago can do what Veron did on Sunday when he took charge of creating opportunities when Tristelme was marked by two men. I like Gago and from what I saw from him in his time at Boca, he is capable but I don’t have the same confidence in him I have in Veron, especially against Brazil.

In the end, kudos to Ecuador. They played us almost exactly like the Brazilians played us in the last Copa America final. Double or triple coverage on Messi and Riquelme and that was all she wrote. Excellent work, I’m not sure anyone has said this yet.

What opportunities did Veron create exactly? I’ve been hearing this one a lot these past few days but I don’t really get it, all he did was pump long balls to Agüero who had no chance of getting to them? Is it because he ran more and shouted at his team mates? He always does that, that doesn’t mean he’s playing better then anyone else.

Arg and Brazil have similar issues right now — neither team is at its best, and neither are able to field their players where they might really want them.

It’s really up to whether or not Arg find some chemistry. I know that sounds maybe too simple, but this team, even though not at its best, is capable of beating any team in the world. (That last sentence is such an understatement)

Most people on this forum have been very fair minded about the Ecuador result , giving Ecuador its due (even though Aurelius called us cheaters )

MAURO,
Veron lost too many balls against Ecuador and doesn’t build with short passes. He doesn’t defend neither. For me, Gago is much better.
Maxi is excellent on the right AND on the left (have you forgotten ARG-SM?). The problem is the movement, the animation. Why doesn’t Maxi have the kind of freedom he had in 2006? Is Basile scared of counter attacks?
By the way, Ecuador played well (not Brazilian’s negative football). They were clever with their 4-1-4-1 and had opportunities (penalty kick refused). They deserved to win.

AJNYHC,
Michel is a fuc#ing bastard. Abidal did a tiny touch on Toni who felt like a dolly. Anyway, it didn’t deserve a red card + penalty. Give him a yellow but don’t make Italy win at the 20th minute. With this referee, France were already dead.

Exactly JAMES.

I agree with you James, Veron is a good passer of the ball especially long balls, but that wasn’t what was needed in this game, for the simple reason Aguero was pretty much on his own upfront coz Messi had gone deep to try and create chances, even when he got the ball he had no-one to play to.

Also I read here that Roman doesn’t play well with fast players? He never had that problem with Saviola, he doesn’t have this problem with Palacio… Right it doesn’t work because Messi is too individualistic as a second striker and is not mature enough to be taking the CAM position. His job is supposed to be buzzing behind a center forward creating spaces in the box and running into passing lanes that Roman creates. I have only see him do this ONCE, against Peru last year.
His pace however would make him an excellent side midfielder, but it won’t happen under Basile and it won’t happen at Barçelona.

The biggest difference between Pekerman and Basile is not the formation of the game, because Basile with Riquelme plays the same 4 3 1 2 that Pekerman did. The difference is that Pekerman knew the weaknesses and strengths of every player, whichever team he put out the players knew exacty what there role was and how to do it. In Basile’s teams the players don’t seem to know what there role is and what position they should be in, it’s sort of like taking a group of children and asking them all to play together, some play in sync with one another and the others go off on a tandem. It’s not a team playing collectively it’s little groups of two/three playing at different tempo’s and styles.

I too agree with you James. It’s like I tried to say before: for Veron to look good the rest of the team had to suffer because so many had to be by-passed for it to happen. That is not say Veron is terrible: it’s just that his style does not fit what Argentina have been trying to do for the last 5 years.

Maxi Lopez
I agree with you regarding prefering GAGO over VERON!! Gago is much quicker in his distribution and passing which veron cnt do!!

I would luv to see Cavenaghi upfront and Messi and Aguero playing off him! what we reli lacked in the Ecuador game was movement upfront which Crespo is brilliant at and cruz should be disposed off!!

What we really need is a new young coach like simeone or batistuta!! look how van basten(holland)and slaven bilic(croatia) have changed mediocre sidez into sum class teams!!

Maxi, Michel has got a bloated head from being voted the best ref at the last world cup by FIFA, and on what basis was he voted that for, the refereeing job he did in our match against Germany. What a joke! Abidal didn’t desrve that red card.

I felt that Veron played an important part in the midfield creation early on. I can’t deny that EVERYONE including Veron ended up just throttling the ball up field to the shortest player on the pitch but he seemed to take the ball and gave it some guidance, something that Tristelme failed to do and something that Messi is unable to do. He found players streaking and spaces where there seemed to be none. I can’t say he was able to maintain this form through the whole match but he had a far “pie fino” than his team mates.

Mascherano was awesome, BTW.

DAY1STAR,

I copy & paste your post like this, no one will miss it!

“The biggest difference between Pekerman and Basile is not the formation of the game, because Basile with Riquelme plays the same 4 3 1 2 that Pekerman did. The difference is that Pekerman knew the weaknesses and strengths of every player, whichever team he put out the players knew exacty what there role was and how to do it. In Basile’s teams the players don’t seem to know what there role is and what position they should be in, it’s sort of like taking a group of children and asking them all to play together, some play in sync with one another and the others go off on a tandem. It’s not a team playing collectively it’s little groups of two/three playing at different tempo’s and styles”.

What you wrote is exactly what we all feel when watching Argentina under the Basile era. Keep posting.

I was also going to say that Pekerman countered every players weakness with other players strengths so we were rarely exposed. It’s the same with Tocalli, even though some might say that the under 20 WC is not a high level competition, but every team fielded was one that had very few weaknesses to exploit and every player gave 110% or they were taken off, he had no problem taking someone off if they didn’t perform to the level he knew they were capable of. I don’t think Basile has the steel in him to forge the players, but that’s my opinion, because before you can make a group of players into a team you have to know how to get the best out of them, and where their relative strengths and weaknesses lie.
In my humble opinion, i think Basile needs to study our players and find aformation that suits them rather than trying to mould them into alien territory, which you can do if you have lots of time, but is a luxury we can ill afford with the next WC being only two years away.

Also i’m hoping that the Ecuador game was a mock run to put Brazil off the scent, and tomorrow Basile will surprise us all with a thrashing of Brazil. I live in eternal hope!

Veron belongs to the past. Basile was expecting him to start against Brazil. It’s a shame. We have this young & fantastic generation of central midfielders that will be in Africa in only 2 years such as Cambiasso, Banega, Gago, Lucho Gonzalez, Biglia who are just asking for more experience and Basile prefers to bring this brutta who didn’t even want to play in 2002. It is scandalous. And it’s the same story for our golkeeper (Pato instead of Carizzo) or our strikers (Cruz instead of Denis, Cavegol or Lopez). I officially don’t like Basile. I’m fed up with this stupid behaviour.

2 years have past and the amazing work from Pekerman and the 2006 team has been destroyed.

A WC must always be prepared with the same group of players from the same generation. OK, few experienced players can be useful on the bench, like Zanetti or Ayala. I’m fed up of saying this all the time.

I’m fed up with Basile and his poor tactics. Some say he’s experienced. It is ridiculous. He has never learnt from his mistakes for 20 years. His defending tactics are poor. He’s so afraid of counter attacks that he seems to ask his players not to move much (ex: Maxi). Winning 5-0 against Brazil will solve nothing. This team deserves more. Our players are very tired and unfit, so we need good tactics, efficient strategies, DEFENDING 4-1-4-1 like with Pekerman. We don’t need an old man who asks his team to defend the same way we attack, with only 6 or 7 players. This is suicidal! Basile still doesn’t even know how to play against Brazi, after testing 3-5-2 in 3 games.

There are tons of problems that I keep saying on our blog like a parrott. 2 years have past. RENOVA & AFA are killing our boys and Basile is not a good tactician to rescue the team. He is not the man. He’s AFA’s muppet that won’t put trouble in Renova’s business.

I want Pekerman back. A young coach like Simeone or Batistuta for whom players would battle for would be enough. We don’t need someone who rejects Lucho Gonzalez, Pablito Aimar, Carlito Tevez, Juan Carizzo and decrease their motivation… People should fight to have their place in the team.

It’s the first time in futbol history that lots of Brazil & Argentina fans want to lose against eachother for a coach change. It’s a disaster after 2 years.

I hate Grondona & AFA.

Vamos Argentina.

Maxi, yu’re 1001% right. The work of Pekerman, Tocalli and future of young generations are destroyed.

Enough with this “tristelme” business, please!

Basile doesnt have what it takes to inspire a team which is what we need to beat Brazil or any European team for that matter. Also everytime Argentina wins as in the case of the Mexico and USA matches he insists, when asked, that the team performed well while we think and know otherwise. Oh, by the way, could his contract have a clause that causes his job to terminate if we suffer a heavy loss by a team such as Brazil?
I think the Argentine team has low morale as a result of the Ecuador + the psychological effect that comes at a result of playing Brazil in the worst place to play them, in Brazil.
The few interviews with Basile sugests that hes going to field a defensive lineup, start Cruz over Aguero, start Burdisso and probably leave out Maxi.
Of course your right MaxiLopez. Basile will never field a 4-5-1, not now anyways, but I believe its the only formation that would be effective against a speedy and physical team as Brazil.
Theres alot of factors that have to be considered in order for our team to be successful.

25% – Mental Factor
25% – Tecnical/Tactical
50% – Players skill

And if all those factors come to place then Argentina will be a force to be reckoned with.
There still might be some hope that we will beat Brazil. A moment of brillance from one of our players and Basile is all thats needed.

i know every one is entitled to their own opinion but it is very unfair

see every one bashing veron every chance they get. in the last 50 posts

at least 40 of them were bashing veron. i really wish this would stop. why

can’t we discuss ways of improving the team instead of the harsh criticism

we know changes will be made next game, riquleme should be better, colo

and should be our starting cb. we need a #9 to start against the towering

and phyisical presence of lucio and juan. arg should come into this game

wanting revenge for the copa lost and to begin the process of healing all

those hearts that were broken. i also hope players like mache who is

carying a bit of a knock to get some rest this game.

I think that a lot of people see the Veron thing as a step backwards.

Sometimes it seems that the coach rewards players a call up for a good year, whether or not they are appropriate for the national team. I’ve never thought that the NT selection should be so cut and dry (for example, even though Aimar was nowhere this season, I would still love to see him playing for the NT).

One thing- my isn’t Diego Milito being called up? Is he injured? (I don’t think that he should be, just wondering)

I don’t think that we should bash the players themselves, though. It’s in their DNA as world class athletes to always feel up and motivated to wear the shirt. Thta’s what makes them such good competitors, even though some come off sounding so deluded. Veron did the best he could, under the circumstances.

jose mourinho will in the stadium live for thte game:
he does have a ton of his players on the pitch: burdisso, julio cesar, julio cruz, adriano, zanetti, ect… .

hey guys, Veron turned out to be injured anyway. So he was left in Argentina which means gago will definitely be starter. there is still a lot of doubt concerning mascherano. i have seen botinelli but i am not really used to bataglia, idk how defensive he will be coz is will certainly be going foward a lot so we would need him to stay behind.

i meant gago will certainly be going foward a lot…..behind.

If we lose with Brazil Basile should go , out,out,out.Take Simeone or Batistuta. I don’t like Basile.Look what he has done with World cup 1994, we at the poor Ranking.If Basile still coach for Argentina, we will get big trouble at the wcup 2010 same as wcup 2002 memories. Say no to 2B Basile and Bielsa and say welcome to Batistuta or simeone.

Boy kinda sounds like a bunch of babies in here lol Talk about jumping off the bus I cant hardly beleive what I am reading And by the way Maxi In my opinion you are being a little over dramatic as these players are human and no matter who you field even the great Maradona and Zidane had bad games The bottom line is that under Basile this team is the number one ranked team in the world and feared by all their opponents just look at how teams play us DEFENSIVE . Lets not forget that they had the world singing their praises up until the one bad game in the Copa Final and I would argue that they were playing even better than in 2006. While I am still for more speed and the inclusion of Lucho and Cavenagghi I think that it is time to stop whinning like Baslie has absolutley no clue of what he is doing. Ok Maxi Ken and all look at who we have dressed for the game and then say who you think should start and why and then tell us all your predictions without referring to pekermen or 2006. Thanks

ps WE DID NOT WIN THE WORLD CUP IN 2006

PSS WHAT TIME IS THE GAME AND WHAT CHANNEL?

PSSS That sucking mexico team we beat 4 to 1 and played so bad against beat Peru 4 to 0 three days later. Give these guys some credit every once in awhile.

pssss When Basile lost in 1994 we were dominating everyone in the first round until Maradona got kicked out.

psssss Ken quit kissing Maxi butt now that he has turned negative like you

pssssss Todd out

guys..what chanel for argentina vs brazil games? what time it will star??

wow. I honestly didnt think we would take this game like this. Italy loses in the euro 3-0, brazil lost 2-0, we tied 1-1 against a team that has made it to the world cup. we cant expect this team to just dominate everyone like they did against serbia. those performances are rare.

i am not a big fan of basile but i am sure he is devoted for making sure our team is playing to their best.

I am a huge huge huge huge fan of Pekerman. I remember two years ago when everyone was on here calling him pekershit and so on. now we see that he knew what he was doing.

basile did have something working for him in the copa. basiles problem is he is un flexible. he only plays one way. he doesnt adjust based on our competition.

the only time that i saw basile adjusting was against france last year. that was because he was without,messi, tevez, riquelme and aimar. so he played it safe and we defended great.

this team needs LUCHO. how you call veron over lucho is crazy. how you call cruz over milito is crazy. milito is a true pocher. he is more physical better with his feet, top 3 scorers in la liga for the last 3 years, and he never gets a single chance.

AIMAR AIMAR AIMAR AIMAR AIMAR AIMAR AIMAR. my gosh i want to just scream sometimes. please give this guy a chance. AIMAR has played so well with MESSI. messi himself has said he loves playing with him. AIMAR Messi and tevez showed us a beautiful game when they were playing in the world cup against mexico.

ALBO please please come back. i really respect your view. we need you.

I am ordering the game for tomorrow. have a wonderful night. CELTICS all the way

MESSAY,
Great post.

TODDUTAH,
You never read people’s post. You didn’t understand what I said. You think I have suddenly become negative because of others here. You never understand things anyway. I’m talking about constructive facts, details concerning our poor tactics, collective problems, the suicidal way we defend and you respond to me that Maradona or Zidane had bad games: completely out of topic. I don’t even know why I’m responding to you and trying to explain. At Copa, we faced nobody until the final. It’s funny to know that the FIFA ranking is that important for you. You are a good FIFA consumer. Anyway, forget what I’ve just said and continue to post your 4-5-1.

great post MaxiLopez i especially love the part when you said: ‘We are not in a videogame.’ because it rings so true. it’s sad that this is happening to a team with such great potential.

Forlan hit a hattrick as Uruguay demolished Peru 6-0, that means that Uruguay are now fourth and Brazil have dropped to fifth. So, if we win today Brazil will remain out of the top four slots and Dunga might jut be out of a job. Vamos Vamos Argentina, Let’s beat them!

I have to say I’m doubting Basile because of his poor selection choices (Bottinelli over Gonzalo ??) .

We can play slow slow quick mix it up as seen in the u20s. Banega with that elegant long raking pass a la Bocchini or the short nifty approach play of Morales combining with Aguero.

We have the defenders but they are not being picked. How Pato is still in is beyond a joke.

This guy wilts under pressure .See the Getafe v Bayern game for instance.

The team lacks width when we have players like di Maria & Maxi is ordered to be in stasis.

Its not a personal attack on Basile but we as fans want what is best for the team because by rights with this level of talent in most positions most commentators would see us as one of the favourites for 2010.

Lets not forget Ecuador leaked five against Paraguay & Brazil. It was a poor performance & excuses about the pitch are frankly nonsensical.

Players like Messi grew up on these surfaces its why they are such great dribblers.

The modern game demands flexibility & mobility & that was painfully absent for large parts of the game on Sunday. Why players choose to watch Messi or Kun instead of running off them or making themselves available for the pass is mind boggling.

Why Cruz ? Cavenaghi or Lopez can run the back line & pull it about in all directions creating space.Cruz = tree. Its a simple simple game.PASS & MOVE.

Work up the pitch as a unit & defend as a unit from the front.

Maybe we should get the likes of Adolfo Pedernera to reach out to the coaching staff from beyond the grave .

I’m officially getting disappointed. The Copa was showing us in the right direction albeit still tactically inflexible under Basile when required but we at present are going backwards.

I said after 2006 its time for a clean break. Time to blood ‘kids’ with some experienced heads around them for 2010 in the Copa.

We still have the likes of Veron albeit he did play well on Sunday , Cruz , Pato , Zanetti & co about. They should like Ayala call it a day. I cannot wait for Garay to move to Real the season after as it will probably be the only thing that will get him noticed.

You have a technically adept & pacy defender in Maidana(Boca) not considered but Bottinelli a very suspect case instead & no doubt when Calamity Milito is free from injury he will be back.

It does not take a man with years of experience to see when a player is patently not international class.

Just because the little rabbit has not played much this season is no excuse to not pick him. He is international class. And for that matter fresh.

As for Emiliano Insua a good candidate for left back he should exit Liverpool. With the arrival of Dossena his chances will be limited & the kids has more than enough ability to find a spot somewhere else.

Benitez is an idiot too & his signings are poor. Degen ? Do remember I’m not even a Liverpool fan(Watford is my team).

FIFA rankings are meaningless. All that matters is titles. Because of the way its calculated you have national sides like Wales behind say Kazakhstan when they are a better team.

TODDUTAH or people who are afraid to criticize after 2 years, take notes about the previous post.

AURELIUS, I agree.
“Its not a personal attack on Basile but we as fans want what is best for the team”. Absolutely. Constructive criticizing is always welcome. Analyse, problems & solutions have been mentioned on our blog during the last 2 years. People like me are not negative. My love for Argentina futbol is too huge to behave like this.

I don’t need to wait for the Brazil game to make a report/assessment of last 2 years:

BASILE responsible:

- NO TACTICAL DEFENDING SYSTEM AT ALL. We defend the same way we attack (!) = suicidal.
- Has never been preparing 2010. Didn’t use Pekerman’s work, destroyed it & built HIS Argentina. Thinks “short term”.
- Never really managed to include Messi in the collective of the team
- Old & “experienced” players in starting lineups while we have the most amazing young talent in the world at every line.
- Never calls a real bench. Lack of respect towards Lucho, Ustari, Aimar, (Samuel)… by calling Gutierrez, Pato, Insua, etc… Not even confident in his bench (D.Milito at Copa, …)
- Bad use of the #9 role. Tevez doesn’t “want” to play for Basile.
- Needed 2 years to understand the utility of 3-5-2 to finally fit a system with the qualities of his group. Thinks he needs 15 days to train a team to play 3-5-2 or to prepare an international competition, in order to be efficient.
- Passive in his substitutions. Examples: didn’t move a single finger when Cambiasso & Veron were playing like wingers against Brazil 07 and not re-positioning. Didn’t move when Mascherano was injured 20mns on the field against Ecuador.
- Terrible communication (“Pato, my goalkeeper” from Boca, “I play the same way whoever we face” at Copa, “I don’t have much time to coach”: the rules are the same for everybody & Argentina plays millions of friendlies)
- Terrible casting: Pato as the most terrible example.

BASILE not responsible:

- Players are tired, exhausted, injured, dead because of Renova, AFA & FIFA in general.
- Some players must start because of Renova and choices affected.

If we win against Brazil, it will be a mental victory of our boys. Not a tactical win thanks to Basile. I also remind that Messi will not always be our saver. See you in few days.

Vamos Argentina!!!

I agree with you Maxi and Aurelius. Has the team been named, if not, this is the first time that Basile hasn’t announced the players playing well in advance.

Good morning guys!

About today’s game. I was trying to think what is that I am worried about.

1. Counter attack – We all know

2. I realized I am worried about long shots taken outside of the penalty box too. 9 out of 10 balls kept inside the frame will go in. Pato is horrible with long shots. Brazil have plenty of power in that department. Seems like I am dreading Adriano. I suspect lots of long shots into our goal and Pato will concede. We will also blame our defense saying why Adriano (for example) was allowed to take the shot. If we watch the European goal keepers, there are shots too, but they save them, so the defenders does not look as bad as ours.

Most European goalies stay much more nearer their lines, so when shots come in from distance they can reach them a lot easier. Pato is not that tall and he stands too far forward making it easier for players to slot it into the top of the net especially when they strike the ball with venom.
We need a taller goalie with better positional skills, Pato nearly always gets caught out position.

DEBASISH,
If our central defenders are attententive enough, there should not be problems with Adriano. His first quality is physical but he’s not that good technically. We still don’t know who is going to play and how. This is a good point & it should have always been like this. Dunga knows nothing. Burdisso should start though…

Basile might do this and not play 3-5-2.

———–Pato————-
Zanetti-Burdisso-Colo-Heinze
—Masche–Gago–Maxi——-
——–Riquelme————
—Messi——————–
———–Cruz————-

Cruz has been destroyed here but I really believe he could score against Brazil.

If Basile cannot get the right combination he should quit. It is very painful to see Argentina almost losing at home to small teams(no offence). It will not be easy againt Brazil; but if Ecuador can draw against us at the Monumental, then we dont expect to lose in Brazil. I think palyers like Cruz, Veron etc should quit international. Arg. has the best cast of young players and they only need to be properly used. Others are dying for a callup to the national team. These are the world cup qualifiers and there is no room for jokes coz if we joke then we are in danger of missing out on 2010. Time to wake up and get serious. Good luck Argentina

Riquelme might not play is that right, i was reading that he is doubtful for this game? Maybe this might work in our favour?

Veron got hurt and won’t be going to Brazil

From Marcela,

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/06/18/basile_has_plenty_to_prove_in.html

MAXI LOPEZ
I think that is the line up we are going to see tonight. If you see my post from yesterday, thats what I thought too. I think that should be fine.

On a side note, I am actually in for Julio Cruz. I am positive about him. He can score a goal. I am a little surprised that he is doing to badly, missing all those chances. We also need him because then only we will cross the ball and there will be width in the game. We created more chances in the last 10-15 mins against Ecuador because there was more width.

WHAT IS THE PREDICTION FOR TONIGHT’S GAME?

Thanx for the article Asil.

Thanks for the article. This is not the first time Veron has requested to be left out. If the reason is really that he wants to be left out because he does not feel 100%, then it must be appreciated. At least he is not playing for the number of caps record.

If you want to watch the game use justin.tv it works well and no need to download anything.

http://www.justin.tv/futbolarg

Heres the link open it up when the game is about to start

You’re welcome. Hmmm, this is depressing one. True or not?

http://mundoalbiceleste.blogspot.com/2008/06/rift-between-riquelme-and-messi-leaked.html

Have any of you guys read that article on Ole, with regards to Riquelme and Messi, it states that they don’t like each other and that Messi nearly left the team 3 days ago after words with Riquelme, and that there was some bad feeling between them in the Ecuador game which Veron went and sorted out.
We really can do without all of this, we’re about to face Brazil in a massive match we need to be focussed not squabbling over silly remarks.
Ole says that Riquelme said that Messi was like Maradona and that sparked things off, when Riquelme was asked regarding this he didn’t deny it, instead he said people hate me and they come out with these stories.
Any truth in this? Sounds a bit iffy to me.

Things like this must be treated as family matters. Someone irresponsible must have leaked things out. Rivalries & competitions are good thing, must be under controlled and channeled positively.

Marcela is basically saying that it would be better if Arg lost to Brazil if it meant Basile going. Yikes!

All this negativity is giving me a headache.

I think the incident happened during the game and now it makes more sense because with a pissed off Riquelme of course hes going to play like shit. But there pros there going to get over this.

I like the whole “play like shit” analysis. Much knowledge learned from an unpaid internship.

The Riquelme/Messi issue is ridiculous. Journalists want to see Basile being sacked and try everything to put trouble in the team. They should ask him questions about his tactical defending vision instead of creating hypothetic problems. The Riquelme/Crespo “issue” is funny. Journalists always create problems to sell paper. They have done the same in France where journalists said that Zidane never did assists to Henry because he didn’t like him.

Yes ASIL. Pekerman had to deal with group of players arguing eachother in 2006 and prefered a radical decision. What we saw fom the outside is that Veron & Zanetti were against captain Sorin. As a good manager, Pekerman took some decisions and sacrified Zanetti. What a waste. A good coach/manager must do all he can to keep a good spirit in a group, within some stupid people. It’s true that Basile has taken some risks by calling back Veron for example, who has always divided people in his teams. Basile is paid for solving these kinds of problems too.

GOLAZO,
Riquelme is unfit, tired and plays because Basile demands him to. He is Basile’s preferred player.

————————-Carrizo————————–
-Zanetti———Rodriguez———-Coloccini——–Heinze

——————Mascherano—–Gago——————
Messi————————————————-Maxi

—————–Agüero——–Lopez———————

I like this line up for tonights game. If Roman is not fit then play defense the first half and bring him in the second.

Maxi I resepct your opinions as I do everyones but I have a right to state it when I think it is going over the top. I have been saying for 8 months that we need to get younger and faster and that basile is not calling the same players that i would call if i were coach. I have stated that with other line ups with more speed and two way players teams could not mark out Messi and Aguero so easliy. With guys like di maria Lucho and Lavenzzi sitting at home it is a shame because these are players that the other teams could not leave unmarked, With all due respect to mascerano and gago and veron and zanetti these are not players that other teams are going to fear with over lapping runs or oitside shots.

The line up I have put for todays game is very defensive and not ideal but it does have speed and that is one thing that we need.

Let me also add that I read every post here and that I am not a Basile supporter but I also do not beleive that he is an absolute idiot. The ironic thing is that before the last world cup i was saying the same things about Perkermen when most were detracting him.

I predict 2 to 1 for argentina. Also if Roman cant play with Messi then it is time for him to go. part of the problem is that basile is not fielding enough runners to compliment Riquleme and Messi so when they get the ball there is no where to go.

Vamos Argentina .

Maxilopez,

Riquelme would wanted to play even if Basile didn’t want him to play and image the Argentine media if Riquelme would of been on the bench.

Alexa – I live how you tackle those Euro supporting South American bashers head first. Back to topic – Basile needs to play with a #9 flanked my Messi and Aguero, but mostly Messi in a free role.

Secondly – Maxi needs to be played more defensively this game. He has the pace to cope with counter attacks. I wish we switch back to a 4-4-2 like when we played France.

Aargh – I’m tired of thinking of tactical schemes, tired of the negativity. Is the game over yet?

If you want to watch the game
live for free with the best
signal with a commentator
conversing in English,
go I-cable Soccer channel on Soapcast. good luck

ha ha — pablitoaimar! I’m trying to argue more — but the Marcela comments are off for some reason. God they make me mad!

when it will start the games from now???

In about 7 and a quarter hours, Aron.

LETS HEAR SOME PREDICTIONS. LETS HAVE SOME FUN!!! TELL WHATS THE SCORE AND WHO SCORES ETC. I WILL GO FIRST…

ARGENTINA – 2
BRAZIL – 1

Goals – CRUZ, MESSI

News about Lucho

http://www.goal.com/en-india/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=741830

Predictions: If Arg line up in a 3-5-2, I’m turning the TV off, otherwise I watch with my eyes closed. Hows that?

Palacio is poised to sign for Lazio. Nice move. I hope it won’t be a reason to not invest in Pablito Aimar! America has made a new approach for him Pablo. I’m positive Aimar will stay in Europe. He’s ambitious.

DEBASISH,
Lucho knows how important it is for Basile to play in a big club. It’s the right time for a move. Many great clubs want him including Barca or Real.
A prediction? I’m reall bad in pronostics. I would say a tie: 1-1 (Messi on an individual action). The players have played very very much this year. They are tired. Maxi, Riquelme, Messi, DeMichelis, Cambiasso, Gago, Mascherano, Heinze, played so much this year. It will an impossible mission to play nice futbol. I must admit I am really frightened about the fact that we always only defend with 6 or 7 players. That’s the biggest problem. But our boys are going to be motivated like never before! We’ll see…

Cruz may score it’s true. He has the genetic code to score gols, even at 34.

Debasich,

Argentina 2 Brazil 1

Maxilopez,

Let me start by sharing a story with you.
There was once a person
at a bus stop at night. He
accidentally dropped his coins.He
kept looking only at the locations
where light was shining even though he
lost the coins at the location
where light was not shinning. As a consequence
he never located his dropped coins.

This summarizes the viewpoint
of a lot of bloggers here. Some
like Todd Utah who believes if
Basile adjusts his formation
things for Argentina will
improve. Others like Aurelius,
an astute observer mind you, now
believe that Basile should go. Yet
others like Day1star while acknowledging
the facts you have reiterated, simply
wants to believe that there will
be a better to-morrow(by ignoring the consequences of
deals made by AFA two years ago).

What I find even more fascinating is that
Marcela also completely missed the point
in her latest article. She also chooses to go
for the easy way out- put all the blame on Basile.

The mistakes that most of us make
is that we believe in what we see. When we look
we see the earth is flat. But we know the earth is
round, but it is not flat. If we want to know the truth, it
is seen with the heart, not with the eyes.

day1star:thanks for your info,i’m excited to watch it.

You always have to hope that there is a better tomorrow or it defeats the purpose of living. Everything changes, nothing remains constant in life. I don’t walk around with my eyes closed hoping that my heart will guide me, that would be a stupid thing to do.
And most of the time your heart tells you only what you want to hear, it’s your brain and the intelligence you feed into it that tells you whether something actually makes sense or not. Follow not your heart it will always lead you astray.
Tell me Ken, what are you doing about the AFA and the deal they made two years ago? And what exactly is it that you expect us to do about it?

There are five witnesses to the truth, your sight, your hearing, your sense of smell, your sense of touch and your tongue.

Ken, forgive me if I don’t understand, seriously, but are you suggesting that he reason Burdisso, Heinze, Veron etc were picked is because of the Renova deal? Those were matters for the coach weren’t they? and he got them wrong. Fair enough, maybe in the future he will get them right. I know I am now going to be painted as ‘negative’ and a ‘Veron-hater’ et al but that is not true because I believe in the beauty of Argentine soccer and was a defender of Veron five or so years back when everyone else was hating on him. His time has passed. As MaxiLopez said quite well, a team must be a generation of players not a mishmash of different generations: that creates a clash of styles and personalities, in my opinion. I am hopeful that they are going to use the Olympics to blood players like Biglia, Garay, Escudero, Maidana, Ustari etc and then see them integrated in to the squad afterwards. That would be the bright future. I understand the restrictions and pressures on Basile but that doesn’t mean he should go without blame for what happened Vs Ecuador. You may say it’s a bad situation to begin with (and I agree with you) but what many are saying is it shouldn’t have been THAT bad.
Anyway, on to the Brazil game. I actually quite like the proposed formation but am a bit dubious to some of the personnell (why after Dunga said after the Copa that they saw Heinze as a weakness and someone to exploit is he playing in the same position again?) and have good vibes (whatever they’re worth) about the game. I wouldn’t like to predict a score but I’m curiously optimistic.

Here’s an article a bit more clearer on the Riquelme/Messi supposed bust-up.
http://www.sportsya.com/english/soccer/world_cup_south_american_qualifiers_2010/home/news.php/South_American_Qualifiers_Argentina_face_rumours_before_game_against_Brazil.html?id=180443&id_estruc=283

Bolivia’s leading Paraguay 1-0.