SuperClassico Sunday -Argentina v Brazil

Aurelius, you are great.
It hurts here too.

Posted from  United States

Alexa, tus insultos solo te ponen tan mal como los “trolls” que tanto detestas… por favor..

Brazil fans have been suffering this entire tournament, with every mistake, the crushing opener against Mexico, the Uruguay penalty shootout that had Brazil ONE KICK from elimination. Every game has been agony.

Think about how much of a release it is to beat Argentina at the end of all that. Most Brazil fans went into this game expecting the worst from an Argentinian side that, especially from the looks of this blog, had been dominating and celebrating throughout the entire Copa!

It’s an incredible feat, maybe even makes it better than having won every game easily (like the Albicelestes). I personally don’t mean to insult anyone. I try to keep my support for my team positive.. and not have it turn negative against the other team.

I apologize if I offended you, though.

Posted from  United States

Ha, it’s kind of funny, reading our different reactions to this event.
It says a lot about the characters we have in this little blog.
Some of the Brazil bashers didn’t even show up.
Which again, says a lot about the characters.

Posted from  United States

AURELIUS thank you very much for answering and remembering what happened in peru…one minute??? the goalie stayed ont he ground for at least one minute then molan olano or whatever fell like 3 times b4 being taken out…1 minute??? and then if u dont pull up the yello when teams inturrupt the flow of the game then its useless to even have them..u know what we need we need comish david stern from the nba to take over soccer….he is so good at making right good changes and actually enforcing them..things like kicking the ball away from oposite players. holding the ball…fouling needlesly through the game….offsides…..the distance for freekicks..and the holding pulling touching biting grabing on areas from corner kicks and free kicks..the constant diving..omg i love soccer but sometimes im just oh so ashamed

Joe apology accepted.

Its just that after having our expectations built up with the brand of football we were playing to come down like a stone is rather hard just as it was last summer.

If we’d been playing terribly & scraping through that would have made it easier to bear.But the no show was disheartening. But congratulations anyway.

Your lot are only five behind us now & looking on the bright side of things you’re stuck with Dunga .

I’m sure the result has filtered to the Albiceleste fans in the stadium but they look very cheery Albo. Got to put a brave face on things.

Chile are amazingly good & probably the strongest team left in aside from the two teams now competing for the last semi final berth.

Posted from  United States

“looking on the bright side of things you’re stuck with Dunga . ”

Hahahaha… err.

Posted from  United States

> Its better to get knocked out in the first round, then get knocked out in the final

Haha, I rest my case.

Posted from  United States

Dale the problem is FIFA is very slow to move things.It makes rules but then doesn’t enforce them until great pressure is applied.

These cover things from stadium requirements,to fairer distribution of funds to smaller clubs, racism, crowd violence etc etc.

I don’t think I’ve seen any referee apply the laws as they should be. I guess they are intepreting the laws. By which they allows niggly fouls to go unpunished etc etc as they don’t want to reduce the spectacle to a five a side game considering the sponsoship plowed in.

But if they did I’m sure coupled with retrospective video punishment, an independent clock which stops when the ball is not in play& goal line technology then it would go a long way to restoring football to a more attacking game from all sides & force defenders to defend properly ie correct anticipation & positioning timing rather than whay many resort to noe.

OK back to the game.

di Maria with two more lovely runs.He won’t be staying at Rosario Central for much longer thats for sure.Hes high in the scouting list reports.

Yacob has to be careful .Can;t afford a ten man game.

Posted from  United States

Alexa,

I’m a football fan. Not a Brazil or Argentina fan. Breathe deeply, don’t let your emotions cloud your thinking, and analyze dispassionately what just happened to your beloved Albiceleste. They were physically dominated by a superior defensive squad.

This is the way the game is played now. If you think it sucks, and you want “beautiful” football to be the proper strategic direction for teams to take, then lobby to get the rules changed. Otherwise, don’t bitch when a team playing Dunga-ball beats your prima donnas.

Posted from  United States

> analyze dispassionately

A lot of the analysis found here seems to be spot on. You on the other hand dont exactly sound like a neutral to me. I am afraid, your condescending tone and rhetoric give you away. By claiming to be what you are not, you come across as insincere.

Posted from  United States

Maradona

U rest the case. its totally upto you. but don’t change the meaning of the whole thing i said.

Posted from  United States

Just 2 examples:for the moron who has appeared.

di Maria handballs no card.
Guerrero barges over Piatti late no card then is booked a few minutes kater for a cynical kick.Should be off.

dos Santos kicks out yellow card.
Simulates in an attempt to gain a penalty.No card.Should be off.

Read moron.The rules don’t need changing.Its their application.
Another pseudo-neutral in disguise.

Argentinas toughest test to date. Some lovely play from both sides more so from Argentina & job done .1-0. I think its Chile next.

Another very tough test. After that either Austria or the Czech Republic should be slightly ‘easier’.

Cheer up everyone.I know it’s hard but we’ll learn the lessons & improve even more.

Posted from  United States

since 1986 until this morning match, i always stand up for argentina for whatever reason. But, after I watched this morning match, i completely dissapointed, one thing that argentina doesn’t have : the winning mentality. it’s not about skill, coach, and the team. it’s all about the winning mentality.

Posted from  Indonesia

Otherwise, don’t bitch when a team playing Dunga-ball beats your prima donnas.————–

Those sound like the words of someone who analyzes dispassionately indeed.
—–

Ok lets call a spade a spade. Remember all those horrible moments, during Pele’s day, when teams would just come out and hack him down? Like Portugal did? Caused him injury. etc. Well that is the kind of team that Brazil has become. Let’s analyze dispassionately. My two favorite players in the world are Riquelme and Ronaldinho.

Brazil continues to get the trophies. But where are the fans? Outside of Brazil? WHo cares, of course. They don’t, they have their trophies and Nike deals and European transfers.

But, let’s call a spade a spade – Brazil decidced that the only way they could win (in all cases, not just against Argentina) was ugly. That’s dispassionate analyses. Becuase they have it all in themselves to play better, in a more meaningful way. They chose not to. Us fans can choose to support that or not.

If you want to win at all costs, well, I just have to say that I feel sorry for you. This is not the forum for you and Arg is not the team you should follow. Chelsea would be a nice place for that sort of thing, I recommend that team. A bit soulless, but sounds like a perfect fit.

Joe – i’m sorry if i lashed out. I do think that it’s HIGHLY inconsiderate to come to an ARGENTINA site and gloat when you know that most people are in pain.

But you seem like a nice person, and I’m sorry if i was rude.

Alexa, relax and be happy, the good thing about this life is that there is a next time and I am sure that Argentina will win in future tournaments. I would not say that the silence in the brazilian side of this blog means there is no love for Brazil because the contrary is true, Brazil is a much beloved team all over the world for a variety of reasons indeed, it is the most popular team in the world. I think it is about time to stop this constant comparisons between Brazil and Argentina because it does more to elevate Brazil than to give due credit to Argentina. I am sick and tired of this comparisons about teams and players, que si PEle que si Maradona come on! Enough of that! Brazil has a unique place in the history of soccer kinda like Mohammed Ali in boxing but there have been and will be more champions and that is what we should all talk about.

Posted from  United States

After the first goal, I kind of knew that it was over.

After Ayala’s own goal, I let reality sink in.

Brazil came with axes and hacked our players.

They came to win and win did they. That was their sole mission.

In the meantime, football went to the dogs.

I have managed to take it. I love Argentina’s game and even when they are losing, they still try to play a clean game. Sometimes it’s good to stick to one’s principles.

Brazil on the other hand believes (at least for now) in winning at all cost.

Their win didn’t please me.

If we had faced Mexico in the finals and lost, I’d have respected them.

Look at the U20 Mexican team. They played a wonderful game and almost equalised. That is what football is all about.

Deep down, Brazil players, fans, Dunga and everyone involved know that they did the bare minimum to win. It works yes but it is down right ugly.

Posted from  United States

hi all,
A huge disappointment and let-down from argentina.. but its kind of okay now… i am getting used to it now…:(

We really didnt have a plan B yesterday. Anybody could have guessed that Brazil will be trying to choke the midfield and counter attack. They had a perfect game plan (not befitting to a normal brazilian side, but very effective indeed!!!) and they had no problems in executing that. They were able to take riquelme completely out of the game yesterday. Messi and tevez never received good passes from the midfield. Moreover, riquelme doesnt have the off the ball movement like aimar. He will be waiting for the ball and 2-3 brazilians were always running at him. He doesnt move without the ball that really (I am forced to tell this… Roman is really slow and he never trace back!!! ). So if somebody is man-marking him (like brazil did yesterday), its quite easy to cut-out the last pass to the striker. I think aimar should have started along with riquelme. No one can man-mark both aimar and riquelme together….

Having said all these, i still dont want argentina to change their basic game plan which is ofcourse to “pass, pass and pass”. But its good to a plan B incase plan A fails. For me, we should have a proper defenders in place of heinze and zanetti (atleast one should be a proper defender!!!). These guys go forward way too often and if cambiasso and veron are not doing the “dirty work” properly, its quite easy for a team to attack through the flanks. U just cant expect mascherano to be perfect all the time.

Moreover, our attacking involves all the players pushing forward. its not like the traditional funnel thing in which if some attacking is happening on one side, the other side sit back deeply to provide depth to the defense for the attacking wing.

I have a feeling that playing two overlapping full backs with two defensive midfielders is not going to help us anymore… We should be playing two attacking midfielders, two defensive midfielders and two dedicated full backs on the wings….

Anyway, congratulations to Brazil for their 9th Copa American cup..

Posted from  India

I really like reading this blog, it’s so good to hear so many different views.
My own take on the game was that firstly our defence was too slow to react and shut down Brazil. There was no width in our formation. There was a lack of height in the brazilian penalty box making it easy for the brazilian defence to cut out all crosses coming into the penalty box.
I think tactically Basile had no plan B or C, in case plan A didn’t work.
I think Messi was one of the few players who really did try along with Riquelme in the first half to get us back into the game and if we hadn’t conceded the second goal in the first half, the second half may have been different.
I think the line-up was wrong, you can’t play with both Tevez and Messi up front, against physically bigger sides they are nullified as a threat, if you want to play with both of them in the team then Messi must play in the midfield with Tevez upfront with a crespo-esque type of striker.
It’s a shame that Basile didn’t change tactics versus Brazil, because playing with width would have tested the Brazilians.
Riquelme didn’t have a great game but then again there were a lot worse players on the pitch, and i was mystified by our freekicks, there was no innovation no inventiveness.
But that said I think with a bit of psychological coaching and a few adjustments to the squad (bring in Maxi Rodriguez, some young pacy defenders, and some young hungry players) and we should have a team that brings results in the big matches.
I really think that the senior team could actually take a few lessons from the under 20 squad, because they work hard for the full 90 odd minutes they are on the pitch, when they lose the ball they hustle until they get the ball back, they’re not scared of the opposition and when plan a doesn’t work they seem to have a plan b.
With regards to Riquelme and Messi give them time and they will forge a good understanding, apart from the last game, they were getting better and better, and one more thing Riquelme needs a foil but Veron is too slow and his passing is not very accurate, i think Aimar would have been a better foil, and Cambiasso hasn’t looked in very good form in this tournament.
I would be very interested to hear what any of you think.
P.S. The ref was crap.

Alexa – OK, good analysis. That’s exactly how I feel – Brazil played ugly, but they won. Brazil just out-muscled Argentina, pure and simple. Sorry for the insulting language, but Albi fans are so touchy that it feels as if one smidgen of criticism opens up the floodgates of “screw you Brazil fan” when I’m not even a Brazil fan, so I feel the need to answer back in kind.

Like I said, it’s the way to win games – you guys here bemoan the loss of the beautiful game, but it’s not a winning strategy. An example here in the US is in the NBA – the Phoenix Suns vs. the San Antonio Spurs. The Suns play an attractive, high flying pace of basketball. The Spurs play a very boring, methodical, and sometimes quite physical style. Guess who walks away with championship trophies?

I like to be entertained. I like beautiful, flowing football as much as any other football fan. However, I also like to see when coaches make strategic moves and it works out beautifully. Dunga made a move, and Basile did not have an answer. Argentina could not adjust to the blanketing of their top two playmakers. Teams that deserve championships can step up to a challenge like that.

Posted from  United States

Miany -

I like your analysis. Riquelme, bless his soul, is unstoppable under the right conditions. Argentina should have anticipated the smothering defense to him and adjusted their game, and Riquelme should have adjusted his game too with more off the ball movement, as you say. I also agree with day1star in that having Tevez and Messi up front was a mistake also – you’ll need at least one larger, more physical forward against the style Brazil employed. That neither of those guys were substituted out was bad, although I think they were working hard (esp. Tevez) and that’s why they were not taken out of the game.

Something I haven’t seen a lot of here (maybe I’ve just missed it) was that Riquelme was TERRIBLE on free kicks. For the amount of free kicks that he took (from the millions of fouls), to have so few look threatening is embarrassing.

Posted from  United States

“Riquelme, bless his soul, is unstoppable under the right conditions”

Interesting quote from “thedude” but should it read under the right team instead? I look at Ronaldinho who does great at Barcelona but I don’t like him in the brazilian team why is that? At Barca he has top talent to work with which he does not have with Brazil where he finds himself competing with others. I think the best approach is to look at a team mentality and if that means leaving a Ronaldinho or Riquelme out so be it.

Posted from  United States

I think the best approach is to look at a team mentality and if that means leaving a Ronaldinho or Riquelme out so be it.————-

No team mentality benefit is worth losing players like that.

Posted from  United States

Olhem esse blog, o que eles vem escrevendo da Argentina … http://www.futebola.wordpress.com

fffffffffffffuck argentian
brazil is the best for ever, don’t dream brazil is better along the history , and will always be better ,, ,, and better and the best in the world again fuck every argentinan
fuck every body
fuck argentina