Football as Music

Yes, Nick. 1998, 2002 WC showed that the defence can’t handled counter attacks & speedy strikers. But that time, our defensive midfielders were not as good as Mescherano, one of the key players in 2006. He’ll maintain & stabilize the defence & links to midfield areas. He’ll be the difference

Posted from  Malaysia

Nick:

Three of the back four are set (and no one is complaining): Ayala, Heinze, Sorin. The current question is Zanetti or Coloccini? I’ve changed my tune here and now favor Zanetti. To Asil’s point - When you have a Mascherano and a Cambiasso above these guys; and when you have a G Milito & Coloccini on the bench - your defence is looking pretty solid.

THE concerns for Argentina right now are attacking ingredients and finding a respectable goalkeeper.

Posted from  United States

I’m just worried overall about the team. Defense, i must admit, is my biggest concern. I’m worried that Peckerman will not be including Zanetti in the team. He is the backbone del albiceleste… I’m not even worried if Riquelme isn’t that good because we always guys got like Pablo Aimar or Luis “lucho” Gonzalez that can fill the void…

Posted from  Canada

I am worried about our defence too. Coloccini is too agressive and unskilled in my opinion. He body checks or hacks down opponents often because he cannot deal with them otherwise. He is likely to give away stupid freekicks -or even worse- penalities. I really have a bad feeling about him!

Ayala has experience, and this will count. Heinze went through a longish injury layoff, but hopefully will get into shape and make a good contribution. Nobody has cared to mention W. Samuel who seems to be doing fairly well this season for Inter although he wasn’t great with Real Madrid. Could the following defensive formation work: Heinze-Ayala-Samuel (defensive core) + Zanetti and Sorin (wingers) + Mascherano (link to the midfield)? Who would make way, if required, for G. Milito? What place for Cambiasso (does he deserve one?)?

At any rate, overall compatibility is as important as individual skill: we need our defenders to understand each other’s game and rhythm, as we have paid the price when they don’t.

Posted from  Australia

Our back four should be:

Zanetti–Ayala—Heinze—Sorin

G.Miltio is one of our best defenders right now and deserve to be called. If Heinze is not 100% he should start instead of him. Gonzalo is a ridiculously effective defender and he is just 21 years old. Much better than Coloccini who is trash.

We really have all the ingredients needed to win a WC, it is all up to pekerman to put them together correctly. So plz guys stop bitching about Riquelme. It is irritating.

Posted from  Canada

If Coloccini scares you as a penalty liability, Samuel does the same for me. He’s slower and even more of a hacker.

Start with lol’s back four, bring on Coloccini for Zanetti if he’s lacking, Milito for Heinze if he’s off form.

Argentina’s lynchpin, and I don’t just mean defensively - I mean he’s by far the most important player on the whole team is AYALA…
(2002 - no Ayala, recent English comeback - Ayala removed minutes before, Croatia - no Ayala). I don’t have Ayala’s +/- on hand but I’ll bet it’s revealing. Apart from holding together the entire defense - he’s a serious goal threat on every offensive corner…

Posted from  United States

Here’s my take on the defense:
Zanetti is our best, i have no complaints or concerns. Sorin: the same. Ayala: he can be a little rough, but that’s okay sometimes, and like someone said on here, he does score once in a while, so i like him. Coloccini…I’m skeptical about him. I liked him during the COPA AMERICA but then what happened? Heinze: He’s great, very hard worker like Zanetti. To be honest, i really like Gonzalo Rodriguez, i’d be thinking about him too if i was Peckerman. Samuel reminds me of el flaco schiavi the way he plays… lol

Posted from  Canada

So we agree then that Coloccini and Samuel tend to be liabilities? Ok. Let’s hope Peckerman registers that.

That leaves Ayala, Heinz, Milito and Rodriguez with Zanetti and Sorin guarding the flanks but also shoring up the defence. It is a good balance between youth and experience. And they are all fairly effective.

The key question now is, which of them would best combine with Mascherano in the starting line-up?

By the way, is Placente out of the picture?

Posted from  Australia

Defence:
Heinze, Milito, Ayala, Zanetti

Subs:
Samuel, Gonzalo, Coloccini

Defensive midfielders:
Mascherano

Subs:
Demichelis, Cambiasso, Sorin

Coloccini is our best subs for Zanetti, right now. I was excited watching him during Olympic. But he’s down this season coz he moved a lot: Milan, Deportivo. Can’t settle down & lack of confidence. He’s still good & can’t find other names right now

Posted from  Malaysia

NO PATO. Lets start a freakin protest. We are not going to win ANYTHING with him. I can guarantee that. The real problem is not our offense or midfield. Not even our defense ( assuming we get back Ayala, Heinze, Zaneti), it is our trashy GK. LUX OR FRANCO FOR THE NT.

Posted from  Canada

I couldn’t agree more with you, lol. How shall we organize this protest? Dead ducks in random places - perhaps thrown onto the fields where Argentine players play (like octupi at Joe Louis Arena (which has always bummed me out as an evil squandering of cool octupi))…a PR release, “Argentine National Side Worried About Another Kind of Bird Flu…It’s Just as Deadly”. I’m game for whatever because WE WILL lose with Pato between the sticks. As an opponent, all I’d do is lob diagonal crosses all day long…the guy absolutely can’t handle ‘em. One amusing commentator called him ‘Dracula’.

Posted from  United States

I am confused regarding EL PATO. First of all he has that nickname for a reason. It is obviously a good reason. He must have played outstanding at one point in his career? how did he get to be the starting goalie? He must have some good qualities no? I saw Pato make some really good saves and play really well in a lot of games. But sure you guys are right he is not consistent. I like Lux too…He will definitely be the backup.

When the hell did pato play a good game for the selection ??? Copa America ? He was a big weakness and looked terribly shaky. Olympics ? Nope that was Lux who didnt allow ANY goal. Qualification games ? Too inconsistent. Friendly Games ? He was a disaster. And now in the clasico…

I hope Pekerman realises this.

Posted from  Canada

Pato is really not good enough, but the problem is that I can not see that anyone is better. Argentina have no really good keepers. Lux? He was terrible during the Confederations cup last summer. Maybe Franco? But I do not trust him ether. We have no good goalkeeper, and that is our biggest problem this WC!! About the defence…I would use Zanetti,Ayala,Samuel and Sorin.If Heinze gets fit in time, I have no problem with him playing in sted of Samuel.Collocini is shite.G Milito is ok and Gonzalo is a very good defender.

Posted from  Norway

Exactly…

Pato has NEVER had a strong game wearing the national jersey. Whatever he manages to do for Boca might as well be in a parallel universe. He has failed in the national side limelight and many, many times…Hoping this will change under THE INCREASED PRESSURE of the WC is a monumentally stupid leap of faith.

I’ve watched Pato many times for Boca and, quite apart from the question of nerves - which cannot be taken lightly, one can say this: He has very good reflexes and is a respectable shot blocker; he passes the ball very well - accurate and long. But when required to come off the line, either to reduce an angle or intercept a cross - he’s ABSOLUTELY hopeless. With the former, his technique is to slide feet first, twisting away from the shooter. With the latter, I think he has very poor depth perception or spacial processing. He starts in the wrong place, leaps badly and otherwise looks totally insecure. I can tell you now I will hold my breath every time a ball is crossed in the WC…

Posted from  Argentina

I think it is an open secret now that PATO is a very bad keeper and there is no doubt about that.
Lets accept the fact that Argentina does not have a world class goal keeper right now and neithe we will get one before world cup. I think PATO
should be excused. Pekerman seems to continue with him, which I do not like. He should look into other options. PATO can block
balls but I hardly see him catch hold of something. The first goal against Croatia was a disgrace. It seems
like, to score a goal against Argentina all you need to do is to put in inside the frame. I would like to see
Ustari, Franco and also Costanzo. The defense need to know they do not have a good goalkeeper and hence should
take up some more responsibiities. Team should always root two players in the goal line for set pieces. They are never there. See the last minute goals of England and Croatia. Experience in defense will be key factor if these roles need to be played. The initial defense formation could be something like this

Javier Zanneti Roberto Ayala Walter Samuel Suan Pablo Sorin

with Zanetti and Sorin going up the flanks. Gabriel Heinze could come in, if fit. That is utmost important. Though I would personally
hate to see him out. Walter Samuel will surely be on suspension at some point during the tournament, could be as early as the second or third game.
Gonzalo is my bet as his automatic replacement. I would never like to substitute Ayala or Zanetti unless they are injured. Javier Mascherano should be a must
in front of these 4 and is very important when Sorin and Zanetti goes up. Remember, Ayala and Samuel will go up for corners too.
Hence, Cambiasso is also a must for me, as he can stay outside the box for the corners (Remember he offers both attacking and defensive quality). Firstly because, he can score from a distance and needs to apply the first brakes for the counter attack. Mascherano, is behind and these 2 gives enough time for Zanetti, Sorin, Ayala and Samuel to come back. Scoring goals is not a problem. Point is we cannot win all games in a 4-2,5-3 score line.

Posted from  United States

Gabi Miltio is an excelent world class defender. He is VASTLY underated. I would go as far as saying that he is our best defender right now.

Posted from  Canada

I agree with choice of defenders being mentioned apart from coloccini. This guy has convinced me he is in way over his head. Dodgy in confeds cup, terrible against croatia. HAPLESS is the correct word.

I’ves said it before, i will say it again, dont put tevez, crespo and messi all at once. It sounds good but someone will get frozen out. As crespo will be seen as the teams main source of goals it is only right he gets service from through balls from riquelme and cambiasso but also from a winger who gets in crosses namely maxi rodriguez.
Use messi as a sub when you want turn up the heat on the opponent.

Posted from  United Kingdom

You’re crazy. I don’t think it’s hype to say that leaving Messi on the bench would be like sitting Maradona. He might well be the second best player in the world. If you don’t like the combo (and I may agree) then sit Crespo and start with Messi in the middle with Tevez on one side and Aguero or Saviola on the other…Personally, I’d put Aimar behind these guys - You’d get lightening fast, dynamic play…

Posted from  Argentina

Yeah that makes sense- take off our a best striker so that we have all the possession and chances yet fail to yield a goal.
You gotta score goals to win and i know a winger will give more options for out attack rather than tevez and messi cutting in all the time. Messi should be part of the first team but the crespo tevez messi act aint gonna work. The three are on different wavelengths.

Posted from  United Kingdom

Messi is not ‘ball possession’ like we saw with, for example, Ortega. He’s an out and out goal threat like Tevez. The real debate is between one view (argiebargie’s) that Argentina should (as it did with Bielsa) stick to a fundamentally European strategy of wingers and crosses. The alternative I favor is a more tightly clustered game of shorter diagonals, quick passes, and the occasional gambeta at the edge of the area. Crespo does well in England because he’s built for the European game you favor. The problem is, the rest of the team won’t be built that way. For your strategy to work, we should (like Bielsa) call-up Chelito Delgado and Mauro Rosales. It ain’t gonna happen, so with that in mind, I’d like not to be stuck in some sort of schitzophrenic half strategy based on the assumption that Crespo HAS to be in there. Only Brazil can even think about putting three/four players on the field like Messi, Tevez, Aguero (Saviola, Aimar, Riquelme) on the field. There are other Crespo’s (Shevchenko, Van Nistelroy, Drogba, Ibrahimovich, etc.) and unless you want Cruz in there as well - you have to assume Argentina will always be physically outgunned in a predominantly aerial scenario. Argentina should play to its greatest advantages…speed and ball handling.

Posted from  Argentina

No i dont agree with bielsa’s management style or taking flops like delgado to the world cup.
We need a team which is effective in scoring goals. If we have it your way argentina should rely on messi and aguero for goals neither of whom are natural strikers. Bielsa’s strategy was to put 11 star names on the pitch.

All players have to be on the same level to operate. I am against taking crespo out of the equation because of the goals he can score. I want messi playing but what we going to do if it does not work out. I dont want the argies continually crossing the ball in. We pass the ball around looking for gaps and opportunities.
Let me give you an example. When argentina beat brazil 3-1 we had the correct mix. Kily playing on the wing, mascherano holding the fort, lucho and riquelme passing the ball around leisurely with tevez and crespo up front.

We find that mix this time around then its all over.

Posted from  United Kingdom

actually Saviola not Tevez started in the game against Brazil.

Posted from  Canada

I would love it if we could play with two wingers. The problem is that I just can`t see who those wingers would be. Delgado and Rosales are not good enough at all.Kily is not as good as he was before.Santana…I don`t know what has happened to him.Point is, I can`see any Argie wingers good enough .Pekerman has played sometimes with 4-2-3-1 formation(like against England) , with two holding midfielders(cambiasso,demichelis)Riquelme as the offensive midfielder, maxi on the right and tevez a little to the left.And crespo up front.I suspect that pekerman will use this formation in the world cup(allthoug I don`hope so), and if he does, I would use Messi on the left and Tevez on the right and Crespo as the striker.

Posted from  Norway

Basically, if you want my opinions on football (admit it; you do) then read JP’s comments. I agree fully. Sheesh, anyone would think Crespo was Maradona: just what has he done to deserve starting every game. Argentina have to play an Argentine style of game, not adapt to the mediocrity of the European teams. Want evidence? 4 out of the last 5 World Youth Cups. This shows you these kids have so much raw talent, if anything stops them realising this it’s their attempts at adapting to the European game.
Also, Coloccini is not as bad as people say. I wouldn’t like him for a whole tournament but in one-off games he gives his all (up until the elbow smash incident, I thought he had a great confeds cup). In the group stages, Argentina come up against Drogba and the 6 feet 10 Serbian guy (sorry I don’t know his name) so they’ll be dealing with a lot of high balls so DEFENDERS that can head like Colo would be helpful

Posted from  United Kingdom