Figures….broken hearts…the begginning of a new era…

The Brazilians defence was fouling it up against Argentina’s strikers.. but then again Argentina never really punished on the innumerable set pieces and was never able to adapt. That, and they seemed to have lost what has been key to their past victories… Paciencia.

On the other side of the field, Brazil played a deadly and effective counterattack which got them the Copa.

But to put things in perspective.. Brazil didn’t win this game with purely defensive drudgery. They went out there and slammed their opponents with two great goals (and the autogol, if avoided, could have still been a Brazilian goal). They didn’t get one goal and lock it up (Germany 2006 champion’s style) nor did they approach the game looking for penalties. At the end of the day, they won 3-0!

Well well well….

another finals and our NT decides to stink up the joint and take a monumental dump infront of the rest of the world against the yellow shirts! Welcome to reality folks. What is it about us and playing brazil in a crucial match?

Don’t get me wrong, I am not for a moment blaming any individual player. The team played sub-par against Brazil in the finals, and full credit to brazil, they played to their strengths , executed well , and deservingly won it (for the nth time )

Here’s why i feel we lost:

1. Strategy and Execution : we were simply NOT playing to our strengths, and we were NOT allowed to by Brazil. How have we typically played so far? A typical move consists of patience – a series of passes averaging in the 12-15 range, waiting for a play to develop. This did NOT happen throughout hte game. Why? a. Brazil ensured that they disrupted the pattern/flow ,ensuring that no series lasted more than 5-8 passes , by good and water-tight marking of key personnel, and some good fouls at good moments. (b) We then started playing right into Brazil’s hands by trying to play like them. Within those 6-8 passes we’d try to force the issue and try to go as forward with the majority of our players as possible. Upon losing it, Brazil has the speed, skill and personnel to counter-attack with elan…which brings me to point number 2.

2. Slow defense – I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: our NT defense is very slow. Heinze got owned in the first goal. Ayala and Heinze had trouble keeping up with the Brazilian speedsters throughout the game. Mascherano was ineffective. Hell, in the last goal, we had Riquelme (thats right RIQUELME) back trying to defend!!!! World class speed players such as kaka, C. Ronaldo will run circles around our defense all day. (think back to 1998- this has been an issue all the time. Remember how michael owen made the defense look like snails??)

3. Lack of patience in Attack/Wrong attacking strategy: Why in the world were we crossing so often to the centre -hoping for headers? We have messi and tevez leading hte attack for god’s sake. Juan and Alex look like Yao Min and Shaquille O’ Neal in front of these two and won every header and more. It looked ridiculous.If we had a Crespo in the centre, this might have made sense.

4. Numerous wasted free-kicks and corners- Riqueleme is great at dead ball situations and set-pieces. But sometimes, its just NOT your day. Accept it and let someone else have a shot – or try a couple of variations.

5. Brazil – These guys come up trumps in the last few times we’ve faced them. Sign of changing times and strategy. They looked extremely European (good tackles and marking, timely fouls, disciplined play, great speed and counter-attacking skills). It was always going to be tougher for Argentina to face such a team and we knew it. Brazil, Uruguay play very different from the rest of the S.American teams these days. Accept it and try to out-think them. Riquelme and Messi operate best in space. The rest of the teams gave them acres of charity football field space for them to run amok. Brazil WONT do it. The european teams WONT do it. THIS is how it’s going to be against the best/effective teams. What kind of strategy works best against such teams? I am not sure yet. I was hoping Mr. Basile would figure that out though!!

6. Luck – it was just not with us in this game. No complaints though. There are no ifs and buts in a game. We got a little lucky with Mexico (they had few great chances which hit the woodwork). We didn’t here. Winners find a way to win and create their own luck. We DID NOT. We came in as strong favourites and didnt live up to it in the finals. There was way TOO MUCH hype and articles and what not going around. A CURSE!!! grrrrrrrrrrr

That’s my rant. I am proud of the way we played in the tournament-with the finals being an exception. We are at the cross-roads right now. It remains to be seen who goes out, who comes in, will our game-play change, and how will we handle it. Personally , I don’t blame the players. It’s more of a mind game and a mental thing in these knock-out games. Winning is a habit and we need to cultivate it. I expect a few personnel changes on the defensive front- I expect a few new players to break through. I expect tighter strategies from Coach Coco . His strategies will work in open games against south american teams where there’s tonnes of agricultural land on the pitch, but not against the top teams. Looking good is one thing. Winning is another. Winning while looking good finally – is a dream. We should still try to follow the dream.

Vick

Kris –

I’ll I can say –

I love your dad, and I couldn’t have said it better myself…

this feels like a really bad dream. i’m totally shocked and embarrsed for my favourite team. i give credit to brazil for winning but damn this makes me feel sick to my stomach. i feel as though arg will always be second best to bra. this was supposed to be our copa. we had a strong team, we beat everyone leading up to the final and we even had three shut outs in a row. then huge disaster brazil kicks our butts once again. we couldn’t stop the counter attacks we looked lost and slow. this is going to take a long time for me to get over.

I am still in shock. I cant believe we played that bad. I think Argentina players were in shock too. Brazil deserved to win the game, not because they played better because We sucked. Brazil played dirty and won. they did anything just to win the copa and they did. I hate brazil I hate them so much I have no respect for this team no matter who says what
It hurts so bad but it would have hurt more if we played beautifully
I am really sad for our older players privor to this game it was argentina who deserved to win, but like always Brazil somehow reached the final and killed us I hate them

Very nice explanation, Mr Vick!!!

Thank you Mr. Riquelme !

It’s hurting bad! The monday’s going to be one of the worst in recent times! All I need to see is 1 jerk rubbing salt in the wound and he’s going to have his head shoved up his…. ahem !

Vick

The biggest mistake was not knowing how to deal with a very physical team. I dont think Argentina expected Brazil to play like they did. Brazil committed 35 fouls and there may have been 10 more that were not called – that makes it 1 foul every two minutes. That made it hard for Argentina to find its rhythm and they kept losing possession. This style of play is not pretty but it wins games and all that people remember is who won and who lost.

Brazil’s game can be summed up as follows:

- Frequent fouling to prevent opponents from getting into any sort of rhythm.
- Round-robin fouling to prevent getting carded.
- Blanket-defend the opponent’s best players.
- Run, Run, Run.
- Play a very fast game.
- Waste time.
- Ruthlessly efficient counter-attack (this is hard but Brazil has talent).
- Make best use of dead ball situations by using big players – helps in both defensive and offensive situations.

Argentina didnt have solutions to any of the above.

Kris, I honestly think that Basile and Menotti’s type of football has some life left.
It just requires balance.
And we didn’t have it this last game.
If Riquelme’s shot on the pole had gone in, things could have been different.
I believe that Basile is not going to give up on talent. And still believe our elegant football can achieve great results.

This has been a long time ever since I started watching football in 1990 that Argentina continues to disappoint in big matches. I don’t know if I will be able to see them lifting a major trophy before I am gone! Sad, pretty sad.

where was messi?
where was tevez?!
riquelme wasnt there the whole second half.

argentina didnt play with heart. they played thinking they were goin win 5-0 and they were way too confident. especially with a team that they hardly ever beat.idk wats goin happen to the team. major changes possibly? how bout some fast speedy defenders. by the way zannetti has to be considered one of the best defenders in the world. and one more statement. messi didnt look like the next “maradona” today

Well-said, Keshab.
Another final, another heartbroken…
We have Messi, Riquelme,Tevez…but we can’t even beat Brazil b-team!!!Something’s really wrong.
Sad but true.

Attacking football is not dead yet. There’s still Portugal. It is a shame to see a Brazil team playing 10 men behind the ball, but hey it wins tournaments.

In the modern game, you can’t just play attractive attacking football, you have to play solid defense as well. I picked Arg. to take the title, but they looked shaky on defense.

Wow! That was ocmpletely unexpected. I guess that just like Brazil seems to be jinxed when it comes to Uruguay, Argentina is -like another poster put it- “owned” by Brazil. I was unimpressed by this brazilian team but this beg a question: If Brazil did this to a fully-loaded Argentina without Kaka, Ronaldinho, Alexander Pato, Ze Roberto, Ronaldo, Fred and others then what could we expect from the fully-loaded Brazil? I guess it would not be farfetched to say that Argentina has a rough road ahead when it comes to Brazil.

Brazil won, did what it took to win and I guess that is what Dunga’s philosophy is. It is not pretty soccer but it could prove to be a winning soccer. I disagree with those who point the finger to Brazil’s physical play because that is rather hypocritical I mean, Argentina played somewhat dirty with Mexico and that was lauded as strenght so why the complaints now? Brazilians are not the smaller mexicans so the pushing didn’t work with them at least when the pushing comes from argentinian players.

I don’t think this Brazilian team would do great in a cup but then again nobody thought they could win this tournament and they are today bearing the last laughter.

Oh well, ce la vie. Until the next one. Argentina has a lot of potential and hopefully they will build upon the good things they showed on this cup. Peace.

After the first goal, I kind of knew that it was over.

After Ayala’s own goal, I let reality sink in.

Brazil came with axes and hacked our players.

They came to win and win did they. That was their sole mission.

In the meantime, football went to the dogs.

I have managed to take it. I love Argentina’s game and even when they are losing, they still try to play a clean game. Sometimes it’s good to stick to one’s principles.

Brazil on the other hand believes (at least for now) in winning at all cost.

Their win didn’t please me.

If we had faced Mexico in the finals and lost, I’d have respected them.

Look at the U20 Mexican team. They played a wonderful game and almost equalised. That is what football is all about.

Deep down, Brazil players, fans, Dunga and everyone involved know that they did the bare minimum to win. It works yes but it is down right ugly.

Guys analyze all that you want…. But at the end of the day we lost. Lost big. We need to call it quits for now, No WC 2010. Get rid of everyone on the team and in AFA. WE are the biggest joke in the sport and need to rebuild. After all a true argentine is proud and we can not continue to be embarrassed this way. Fuck all our guys send them back to there towns and bring in new blood .

look on the bright side the u-20 won 1-0

meaning 1 goal against us and in the semis now

so good defenders comin i guess

it is already proven to be winning soccer. How do you think teams like germany and italy have so many cups. But I would never expect that from Brazil and maybe we would be better off playing there supposedly “A” team as i hear they supposedly play an attacking style lol.
But from some people i am hearing comments that is unheard of. “Where is messi” Where is Tevez? Where is Riquelme? haha did you guys see the game that i saw? they were on the ground. THERE IS NO STRATEGY AGAINST BEING FOULED NO MATTER HOW FAST OR TALENTED YOU ARE. Some say if Riquelme shot goes in its a different game, maybe, but i think if the referee tightens up the game and maybe pulls out a yellow in the 1st half its a truly different game.
And again i will say there will never ever be another Maradona, he puts the batteries on and wins these types of games and 1 of the reasons why he wins these types of games that made him the best is if you fouled him he would make you pay for it from the spot. Brazil obviously prepared extremely to stop the free kicks just out of shooting range and they did well. To say argentina played down right terrible is just a crazy response.

At least from the prior games in the tournament the world knows what soccer has the potential to be. I think this is one of the reasons soccer will never be popular in USA but also it is what makes the game fantastic hopefully eventually a team, ANY TEAM, will have enough talent to break this defensive shell but as of now this thing wins but I truly believe we are going to see Attacking futbol die. 5 gattussos in the middle and 1 messi up top and win every game 1-0 . A.C Milan champions league, Italy world cup, Brazil today.
I dont like it But it is the strategy that allows teams like Greece to be a contender and actually win a euro championship out of the blue and it is becoming more and more popular amongst all the teams.

I love argentina,because they palyed pure football.argentina lost because they played without concept. they should fouls in middle of field, defender dont should go front.

Kris, let’s not kid ourselves. Riquelme and Messi were no match for the solid defense played by Brazil, Riquelme was neutralized by Mineiro period. Stop rationalizing the loss which comes from a simple fact: Brazil stuck to a clear strategy and the argentinian defense was cheese before the brazilian knife. Maicon ruled the wing for example. Alex had an excellent day and when he is in form is not likely that Argentina could do anything in his area. Robinho was not the key player today and yet Brazil overpowered Argentina and that is why they won the cup. I would prefer a return to the beautiful game but as long as this style produces results I guess I will have to get back to watching old videos. Soccer changed and there seems to be no way back.

Hi everyone,

Fab, The future has always seemed bright for the last decade and a half as Argentina has had tremendous success in the junior ranks (U-20, Olympics etc), but somehow, that hasn’t translated to victories in tournaments at the senior level. I’m sorry to disappoint you sir, but the under-20 level and the senior level are different ball games. Of course, we can continue to hope.

2. Leadership and a determination overcome the odds to win the big match is what’s missing.

Mane i am not rationalizing. That is what happened on the field. Brazil had 4 “dungas” across the middle and hacked away. Milito finally caught on and started doing the same. Mane i am no superstar but i can play some futbol and when you receive the ball and everyone on the other team is behind the ball and on top of that they foul you to stop any momentum whatsoever it is extremely difficult and extremely frustrating because it is out of your hands. that is why i give brazil credit they came out with a strategy and executed it like an NFL team would.

Dunga’s in a lot of pressure with people questioning his competency. Brazil may have not played their Brazilian samba but they definitely were able to win it against Argentina. Dunga adapting to the neccessity of the game against Argentina shows a lot of promise for Brazil. Remember how they weren’t able to counter Zidane in the midfield during the last World Cup? They tried to keep on attacking using their Brazilian dance to no avail.

I have read some where that Argentinas love affair with football is an ideal symbolic representation of its much celebrated dance style Tango. Each drawing comparisons and influences to one another and constantly evolving. The tango being the tragic love story performed in a magnificiant dance movement, but never the less the theme is always anxity, disception, and anguish. I realized what it really meant during this Copa America. I realized it when I saw a shattered Riquelme looking helplessly when his last freekick went wide above the post, I realized it when Ayala lay dead on the field after the self goal, realized that when veron left the field….I dont want to sound pesimistic…but i guess i have to live with this feeling through out my life time when i relenlessly continue supporing this team. I told my brother after the match….one thing that I am almost sure by now is that I will not have a death resulting from heart attack…as being an argentina fan through out my life, ive suffered and overcome many heart breaking moments, both on and off the field. I previously stated in one post that there will be no justice in the world if Argentina dont lift the copa…I take back my words…may be there is justice in the world..and this is how its supposed to happen always…but one thing for sure, I will keep supporing the Albiceleste….

Good to see the Juniors reaching one more stem closer to defending their title…clearly tells the fact that with senior level, physical peresence on the field adds as the advantage and probably the purest form of equals in physical sence happens in the junior ranks…and i am happy that the albiceleste is winning hearts there:)
peace

Basile’s objective was to win Copa. That’s the reason why we had full strength team.

Like Kris said, Brazil prepared with 4 “Dungas” against us. But Arg with 1 Mascherano? That’s why Ayala & Milito were having hard time to plug the defensive mids gaps.

I think we simply lost our head when we won convincingly before the final. In WC 06, maybe we peaked too soon after we smashed the Serbia. Again, we failed to understand our enemy and lost our objective.

Asil…dont be harsh…you know thats not the case….in no time will argentina underestimate Brazil…ever….
then….it just happened…no explanations…waiting for the reactions and blamegames to begin…

Anand, sorry. I felt confused and dazed, just like Arg players, today. Waited anxiously from 4am, unable to sleep well, only to watch 3 knock out punches. I’m at office still feeling dizzy. Luckily our juniors gave us something to smile.

same here asil…could not sleep after the match. Infact felt like a dejavu of sorts in the broken dreams ive got after the match…even saw messi desparately trying a fight back…then hey it was in my dream…came so early to the office…now im feeling dizzy…have been ranting about fate and win for mediaocracy shit though out the morning…

already getting annoyed by a Brit media’s analysis of the game blaming riquelme..and his notoriously vanishing act. When will they stop this. ANother Indian news paper which i dont even bother to read otherwise…” And this was a Brazilian team without Kaka, Ronaldinho and Adriano. One wondered what would have happened if the AC Milan and Barcelona striker were around. It was certain they would have tossed around the Argentine side with such childish callousness that would robbed everyone of Ayala’s men of the game’s spirit.”….
MAn….after all the happiness we gave to the world….

I love Tim Vickery..
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tim_vickery/07/15/copa.final/

guys,

when was the last time since 1990 which was our last final that we played reasonable football?? after bilardo left basile came….itis not the first time for disasters with him columbia 5-0 .difficulty in qualifying against australia….romania in 94…and don’t blame maradona for that…it was through counter attack that they beat us….then passarella….then bielsa( different but also attacking)….pekerman…..all of them are the same one way or the other…they are picked because of they are loyal to the old style…..

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHY WE CAN’T HAVE A DIFFERENT STYLE…IS IT THE AFA?

HIRE BILARDO BACK…..OR A EUROPEAN COACH….CAPELLO….ITALIAN TO PLAY DEFENSIVE….WHAT IS THE PROBLEM IN HIRING A FORIGNER???

CAN SOMEONE ANSWER ME?!!!!!!!!!!

bionic messi,

Bilardo’s style was not popular before WC 86. Not sure after that but we won. Read this:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6781773,00.html

Thanks for the article, Anand.

Anand, Asil,

I hear you brothers. I’m finding it very difficult to keep awake at work. The ladies in here don’t exactly look like candies either, so my concentration and morale is at an all-time low.

Bionic,

Like you said, we’re going wrong somewhere. It’s partly to do with the coaching schemes. I don’t doubt the attitude of the players. Hell, most of them had such long seasons and still came up to play for the NT. Our style is such that we are going to struggle with physical teams with good counter-attacking speeds. I think the game preparation was missing. We needed leadership when being 2-0 down at halftime, and nobody stepped up (Can someone say Gerrad>).

Lastly, I personally don’t think that kaka, ronaldinho would have made much of a difference. I don’t mean to say that Argentina wouldn’t have lost. I mean that the margin wouldnt have been any different, if at all. With Kaka and the likes, our defensive strategy would have been more focussed (just like how brazil exactly knew and marked out Riquelme, messi and tevez. They knew that cambassio, mascherano are good -but not threatening) towards containing their key players. This brazilian team played AS A TEAM – everyone equally fast, physical and aggressive. Basile clearly didn’t do much homework on their new players to shut them down.

Brazil just has our number lately, plain and simple. It happens in sport, and good teams should know how to overcome such things. We aren’t there yet. We cannot always keep cribbing about fouls, physical play , counter-attacking speed etc. Sometimes, games will be scrappy. We need to pull out a win even from them.

Vick

Vick, Anand,

Good to know fans on this side of the world are having hard time at office

fucccccccccccccck argenitia ffffffffffuk basile fffffffffuck pato ffffuck ayala, fuck milito , fuck hienz, fuck tevez, fuck zanaeti, fuck veron, fuck cambiaso, fuck every body… fuck argenina’s squad fuck worldcup fuck copa america , fuck football

I just want to ask one question, i hope one of you can supply me with an answer, why don’t Argentina give Maradona a place in the coaching setup of the national side, because he is one of the greatest symbols of Argentinian football, and if anyone can inspire a team and give them a psychological boost he’s the man to do it. Also, i think it would be very good for his health and it would keep him busy.

day1star,

let me try taking a shot at that. The only way I see maradona contributing is as a motivator for the NT – someone who comes in before crucial games as and speaks to the team to lift the morale.

Does he warrant a permanent place in the coaching staff? I dont think so. Why you may ask:

1.He’s a great player. In my eyes, he was the greatest football player in modern football. That does not necessarily translate into coaching success. He has tried his hand at coaching with a couple of club teams (a quick wiki search tells me that he has coached 1994 Mandiyú de Corrientes
1995 Racing Club de Avellaneda) and without much success. Coaching the national team is not a joke , it requires atleast a little bit more groundwork and success.

2. The game has changed a lot since he has played. He would be an excellent motivator, but might not be great at strategising.

3. He has a lot of personal problems to handle (health and otherwise). He needs to spend the rest of his life taking care of himself, peeing out all the coke he has taken.

Vick

Hi guys….

I watched the game at a friend’s house surrounded by Brazil band wagon jumpers and I wanted to cry after the game! All I heard was “This is without Kaka and Ronaldinho etc etc etc!”

The truth is, the game would be completely different with those guys playing, and I for one hoped they had played. As WC 2006 and the recent friendly against England proved, Brazil become ‘top-heavy’ with those guys playing…and the 9 men behind the ball system they played yesterday would not and could not have worked.

Guys and girls, as much as it hurts, as much as it sucks, more than Brazil winning, I think it was Argentina who lost yesterday…big time! I love reading everyone’s posts and I love how active and opinionated are blog is, but FIFA, the referee, Brazil’s tactics etc etc would not have mattered if we had got it right…and unfortunately we didn’t.

I believe we should look within ourselves to explain what happened yesterday, and build on it from there. In life, and especially sport…if the ultimate champion gets it 100% right, he can STILL lose on the day. But when the best in the world (which I still believe we are) get it wrong, then they are totally open to lose to an average team who plays superb on the day! That is what makes the sporting world tick…and we should have been physically and mentally prepared to make sure we did anything and everything to be on our top, top, TOP game! We weren’t…so it was us who lost it…it was us who threw it away and the people who have been teasing me last night and this morning are totally correct…it was us, Argentina with out beautiful football and beautiful blue and white jerseys that CHOKED!! We ain’t the first ‘beautiful’ team to choke, and we won’t be the last…(Hell Barca choked this year and Arsenal’s beautiful team from 2002-05 choked on MANY occasions!)

But today is a new day…the day after the day before…and guys and girls…the bottom line is that the foundations we have are unbelievably strong and deep. I swear I’m not clutching at straws, or trying to raise anyone’s spirits. My own spirits are so low right now, so I know how each and every one of you feels! But I whole-heartedly believe that EVERY single team in the world would like to have the foundations we have. Three years away from the World Cup, we have work to do…a lot of work in some areas…but no more than any team in the world has. In fact, the only two teams with momentum in terms of squad building are Portugal and Germany – and ask their fans…these guys have been through some tough times recently. Portugal missed the 1990, 94 and 98 world cups and then were humiliatedat WC02! All this was with their “golden generation.” Germany up until the eve of the world cup were a shambles, and to a lesser extent, so were Italy. But they came through it…they addressed their problems, built on their positives and came out stronger…and now we need to do the same!

Have faith guys – what we need is not radical…it iss not a revolution, it is simple evolution that all teams have to go through no matter how good or bad. What we need is to structure what we have. It’s much easier to have the talent there and build on that than to have to find the talent. And although I was heartbroken, devastated and defeated last night and this morning…truth is that if our crushing defeat yesterday meant that we iron out issues that result in us wining our third world cup in 2010 then it was a worthwhile exercise. 3 World Cups and 14 Copa titles reads better than 15 Copa titles but 2 world cups because we won yesterday and then underestimated the work that needs doing!!!

So what work do we need to do?! How do we evolve?…..

Well…most of our issues are blatantly obvious but just in case there any people in denial (which I don’t think there is in our blog!) I will state the obvious: Argentina are AWFUL in defence, and that is with the best young defensive midfielder in the world protecting them. The only defender that has played regularly this tournament that is immune to the criticism is Zanetti. Ayala (as much as it pains to include this icon of ours in this list…but he is now definitely past it), Heinze and especially Pato and Milito are just not good enough. No way, no how! If we want to know why we haven’t won a major competition since the ’93 Copa, then don’t look further than the defence. For every Redondo, Batistuta, Aimar, Riquelme, Messi, Saviola, Crespo etc etc etc there has been a Pochettino, Chamot, Placente, Abbondanzieri, Cavallero, Bonano, Burgos etc etc? Its not rocket science is it guys…we are unbelievably unbalanced in the strength of our attackers and defenders! So if that is the problem…lets FIX IT!!!

Why Ustari and Carrizo haven’t been given more chances is total craziness! Our WC defeat to Germany, the friendly games against France and Spain, or Buffon’s performances for Italy at the World Cup should have underlined the need for a stronghold guardian in goal! We have two awesome prospects who could potentially have three years national team experience by 2010. I know it’s easy to say in hindsight, but SURELY the games against USA and Colombia were perfect for Carrizo to be thrown in!

In defence…wow, where do we go from here? The first person that springs to mind is Walter Samuel? The Samuel of Boca and Roma was among the best in the world at the time! A move to Madrid, where even Cannavaro has sometimes looked ordinary in a championship winning season led by Fabio Cappello, marked the end of his confidence and removed him from the world class bracket, but he’s not done THAT bad at Inter, and he has certainly never made as many mistakes for the NT as Milito and Ayala have in this COPA! Is there no chance for him? Also, Burdisso deserves a chance! Of course the future is probably built on Ezequiel Garay and Gonzalo Rodríguez…so the sooner they get fully fit and integrated in to their club teams and then our NT, the better for us all.

Finally, in midfield and attack…I think we can’t complain at all. People will always have opinions but we have different options and permutations that any team would like to have, and in my opinion had Brazil not rattled us with the early goal and then sat back waiting to counter, we could have beaten them comfortably with Riquelme or Aimar, Lucho or Veron, Gago or Cambiasso, Crespo or Messi or Tevez or etc etc. They are all good enough! What screwed it up was awful defending for the first and second goal killed us and we never recovered. After that it was mission impossible for our midfielders and attackers…so honestly, anyone who doubts their abilities needs to look at the bigger picture! (Having said that, we do definitely still need a plan B!)

Before I go, I’d like to thanks each and everyone of you for your contribution to my enjoyment of the Copa over the last few weeks. You guys are both entertaining and insightful and I look forward to reading everyone’s opinions as the season develops!

We all have the development of Aguero, Gago, Sosa, Banega and of course Messi too look forward to and the new club season is round the corner!

So Guys, keep your heads up…although last night was heartbreaking…we will be back…you know we will, and the world knows we will! Vamos!!!

Aizaz

anand, I think Bilardo’s tactics in ‘86 consisted of getting the players to give the ball to the greatest player of all time and let him win the world cup for you!!

Seriously though, Argentina can play all the beautiful football in the world (and they have played some of the best football I have seen from an international team for over 20 years), but when you come up against a team like Brazil, who play a european style game based of physical strength, counter attacking, closing down space and committing fouls to disrupt their oppents flow, you need to have a Plan B. To put it simply the likes of Brazil, Italy, Germany, Holland etc are not going to allow you time and space to play the syle of football that Argentina do. I’m not saying we should give up our style, I would rather play like that and lose than end up playing like Brazil and Italy, but Argentina do need to be able to play in other ways when they come up against these teams.

I forgot to mention when I was talking about Portugal’s bad run in the 1990s with their golden generation…

As much as I respect Scolari as a coach (food for thought: do we need a foreign perspective to progress?!) it is no coincidence as soon that defenders such as Andrade, Carvalho and Meira have come in for the likes of Couto and Jorge Costa, Portugal have become more dominant.

Are Ronaldo, Simao, Pauletta etc better than Figo, Rui Costa, Joao Pinto and Paulo Sousa….I don’t think so! But Portugal are a lot stronger of a team now….and that underlines the point I am making!

Hey Vick, I meant as a motivator, coz if you remember the world cup, he was in the stadium in all the matches except for the last one in which they lost to Germany, and him watching them seemed to make them raise their game.

I totally agree with what you said Aizaz, our team is better than the majority of teams out there, and with three years to go we have the time for our players to evolve, forge better understandings with each other and to incorporate some very talented youngsters into the squad.
VAMOS ARGENTINA.

SACK BASILE!!!!

He’s an idiot, obsessed with this “beautiful game” nonsense. Ask Cryuff how many world cup winners medals he got? Exactly.

I saw Brasil beat Argentina 3-0 in London last year, and it was almost identical yesterday.

Basile doesnt learn. I dont even think he watched the tapes from that game.

In that game, there was no Ronaldhino (Kaka came on as a sub later and scored), and Argentina played almost the same team!!
Two little guys upfront (Messi, Tevez), and Riquelme as the attacking head of a diamond.

Sometimes you have to adapt to the opposition, you can’t play “wow” football / free-flowing football everygame.

Hi again, all…I am so depressed now that I really see no future in anything, but here are my thoughts on the game:
After Baptista’s goal I new what was to come, our defence is just not good enough when the opposing team counter attacks. Heinze and Milito have looked shaky throughout the tournament, and sadly the were joyned yesterday by Ayala. I will say nothing ugly about Ayala, he is a warrior that has been fighting for Argentina for so long. And I am so thankful for all he has done over the last 12 years. Zanetti was maybe our best player yesterday, and he has again shown what a tremendous player he is. Sadly, given his age, this is the last time we saw him in a decicive match for Argentina. Veron was shit, Cambiasso was shit. I am SO fed up with Riquelme now, all those freekicks and he didn’t even once creating danger with any of them. After 10 minutes I could see that the Brazilians were superior in the ear, so why the hell did Roman still take his freekicks the same way over and over again. Pathetic!! Messi didn’t do much, he showed flashes, but faded in the second half. Tevez was not good, we saw again that against a really top class defence, it will not work out with two small players up front. It worked out against Peru and Mexico, but Brazil is a different legue. Crespo’s injury was the worst thing that could have happened to us. I am so fuckin tired of “we will win the next world cup, we will win the next copa”, we haven’t won a thing in 14 years and to lose this final against a mediocre Brazilian team was just heartbreaking and very very embarassing. It was simply to much!! I am devestated and angry. I am so embarassed that I will stay in for a week now. This is one of the worst defeates I have ever suffered and I think this is the worst game I have ever seen been played by an Argentine NT(I did not see the game against Columbia in 93). So were do this leave us?…I really don’t know…All I know is that being an Argentina fan is really just about pain. I know we play some good games now and then and reach a quarterfinal or a final, but we never win anything! And this hurts me so fuckin much that I can’t stand it any longer. I wish that I never became an argeie fan, but now that I am, there is nothing to do about it..I will always love Argentina, even though it hurts like hell.
On the absolute highest level, Riquelme will not make it. Like we saw in the world cup last year, and when he could have sent Villareal to the CL final. But despite this, he was still the best player for Argentina in this tournament together with Mascherano. Zanetti, Messi and Tevez are the other players who we can be proud of after this Copa. Messi is just 20 years old and he had after all some marvellous moments in this Copa, even though he was bad in the final. The rest(Ayala, etc) was ok or just utter shit(Milito, etc). I don’t wanna see Veron anymore! I hope Basile resigns, I don’t like his slow, walking football. But I do not wanna see Ruggeri as the new coach. Maybe Tocalli….

I haven’t read all of these posts yet — but from a quick run through….

- Blaming the players is sort of beyond the point. This goes along with the same ridiculous pre-modern times reasoning that certain players are “cursed”. Players aren’t cursed.

-THe coaches need to get into the 21st century in terms of mental preparation. I remember everyone making fun of Klinsman for bringing in sports psychologists, what they termed “American” sports philopshies (by American, USA). But , you know, they work.

-We are missing truly excellent wings. Look at what Ribery was able to do in the last world cup. It’s sort of needed in the modern game.

-Basile games seem to be a blowout either way. He’s a high risk coach. Vegas high stakes stuff. So you get high highs and low lows. All I could think of before yesterday’s game was the blowout of Arg by Colomiba for he 94 qualifier.

-THis is the sort of style that needs more energetic, tough defending than what Ayala and Heinze can offer in this stage of their careers.

- I have a neophyte question — why can’t Argentina play more along the lines of a team like France? France seems so well proportioned throughout the field, with an air-tight defense, lightening fast wings, and real spark up front.

- Blaming Riquelme and only Riquelme is the easy way out. We all saw how different the team is without Riquelme. He went down, they all went down, because of a lack of strategy. If Basile had told him, just once, let Veron have a try, Riquelme would have done so.

RUne – I feel your pain. It’s nice to know that others are as bummed as I am.

One thing though – I will never lose faith in Riquelme.

I’m not saying we should give up our style, I would rather play like that and lose than end up playing like Brazil and Italy, but Argentina do need to be able to play in other ways when they come up against these teams.————————-

very well said

I am heart broken..devastated…another 2004 and a worst kind.

Argentina played disapponting footbal..i couldnot believe my eyes. Here are the nutshell;

1. Brazil did not played artistic football, they played powerhouse football and rundown argentina.

2. They marked the importent playes well, who ever is receiving the ball, ar being attacked by two\three brazillian, where as there was no backup support for the argentinos, they were on their own.

3. cambiasso (i never liked his style and play) worst player in copa, he did not linked the midfield.

4. Defense was worst, whenever brizillian are running through teh defense, i was shattered like the argentine defense, we need young fast defenders.

there are some more critical reports, but i am too much dipressed to write them.

any way, stay with the team guys…and Brazil…congratulations.

Personally,
I feel sorry though for all those of you who are taking it so hard.

Unless, Argentina has a FOREIGN coach, there is no way out.

The biggest problem of the recent argentinean coaches is that they do NOT have a plan B when things do not go their way. Pekerman proved that in the wc2006 through his substitution when Pato got injured.

Basile had 45 minutes to respond when our team was losing yesterday. He did not have any plan “B”.

Both Pekerman and Basile proved that they simply cannot think on their feet when things go wrong.

This is where tactics and the “chess game” comes in.

Argentina has tremendous talents and they will always be “violently opposed” through fouls. Unfortunately, the latest two argentina coaches have no response to that in term of strategy.

I have said it many times before, football nowadays is a collective sport and any individual players can be shut out by a smart coach at the highest level. For example Messi completely faded in the second half…

Argentina can keep manufacturing all those talents as we can see in the under 20 tournament currently taking place in Canada. But none of this will help unless we bring in a foreign coach of the caliber of Klinsnsman.

Part of the problem lies in the argentinean coach lies in their emotional approach to football. Pekerman acted like a “professor” during the WC 2006 and spit out his strategy before he won the games. Basile again spit out his strategy before he won the final. A top foreign coach would never do that until he raised that cup!

I hope to hear from ALfio as I truly respect his opinion. what is your take on this sour defeat Alfio?

To those of you whom I consider friends on this blog such as Vick and asil, please stop wearing your emotion on your sleeve.

I just logged into this site now, to say whats Ken has said above.
We need a foreign coach. WE NEED A “JOSE MORINHO”. Thats the only way. We have talents, no doubt, we need a manager who will turn a talented bunch into a winning bunch. I am tired, I am 33 yrs old now and I get a feeling I will not see Argentina win anything in my lifetime. I wife told me yesterday to change my loyalty to Brazil, if I want to be happy during a football match.

GET JOSE MORINHO or RAFA BENITEZ, people who know how to WIN!

yes..everyone here is so sad….we lose today..
so terribly…
u guys wanna blame?ayala?
yeah..his fault for the 1st and 2nd goal…but cmon…he’s a wonderful servant for argentina..
brazil play better than us today..i actualy don’t like our line up since lastime..no balance..
u can see today..veron and cambiasso not really good..
lack of pace..THEY’RE SLOW..
yeah we do need CRESPO..
remember the combo of messi + tevez=not really good..
we need Crespo..
no balance in our team..
that’s why…
CREDIT to the brazilian..
they play better than us..
3-0..That was completely unexpected..
Wonderful copa by the argentina…they display beautiful futbol..
we still love argentina futbol right!don’t tell me becoz of this game…we not going to love them anymore?no right!!
my heart is so brokeeee..!!
so saddd…but…
we still love argentina futbol!!!don’t you!?love the way they play..
beautiful futbol..!!!

haahahahahaha
Argentinos will not cry anymore… will always go to final prepared to loose again..
hey fellas,, u know.. u (args) have the most beautiful plays, but we are the best.. we’re always doing the best.. and playing like no one!! we have one thing that u most to know!! we dont like args!! seeya loosers!

Well,
KRIS.. you know what i think
i think you are the BIGGEST FUCK in the world..
if you look back at your previous post you will find your self bitching about how bad you gonna kick our ass..
and now that you got your ass kicked 3-0 you are Bitching about our playing style…
well, no bro.. that’s not good…
you can cry for your beloved argentina but plezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
dont mess with BRAZIL
5 times World champions
winners of the last 2 Copa America with a 2nd team against an almighty argentina 1st team that YOU even said is far better than us…
and plzzzzzzzz
i dont want to hear people speaking about messi again, cuz the last we know of him is crying at the sight of Robinho ( best goalscorer in the tournament, best player, and best YOUNG TALENT )
dont keep OVERRATING messi plz..
the best thing he does is chasing KAKA for 50 meters before getting shortness of breath watching kaka score in last friendly…
KAKA
ROBINHO
BRAZIL
and for those who recently has been talking about the fall of the brazilian era and the start of the Argentinian one…
last game was the perfect answer…

HI every one…

it’s me ALI

and i am BACK

one more thing KRIS
i would strongly suggest that you go back to what you said and EAT YOUR WORDS…
a very nice apology and admiration for brazil will make you a better respected poster trust me…

Hi Ken,

Good to hear from you again. As a fan, I was of course emotional in defeat. But if you go through my first post in this thread, it was more from an objective point of view as to why Arg lost in terms of the flaws and strategies. I completely agree with you – when things don’t go our way- there seems to be no plan B.

Argentina with the current coach (Grrr) and gameplay will do fine if they score first. However, if we concede first, it is a disaster waiting to happen against strong physical teams. Similar to what was witnessed yesterday, the opposition will simply sit back and defend, making us play into their hands, and then counter attack with deadly effect.

Basile, Pekerman etc needed to show that they could adapt and change their strategy against different kinds of opposition, and they didn’t. We will always beat teams that give us loads of space, and lose to the quality ones that don’t give us an inch if we continue to play without some on-the-game planning.

Your thoughts?

Vick

whatever…no matter what…
we love argentina right!!!

I broke my heart for every day and every year because can’t see ARGENTINA won the trophie . In my opinion AYALA and PATO should be retired from international squad . It is time for new faces to play for ARGENTINIAN squad such as ZABALETA , CARDOZO , USTARI , AGUERO and more . Actually I’m looking when ARGENTINA play with brazil in the final copa america 2007 i didn’t feel ARGENTINA give a full commitment in that match , is just look like a friendly match . The first thing i don’t know why RIQUELME become a slow and look like he cannot do many things and not so much help ARGENTINA to created a chance . For the first substitution i thing RIQUELME must be change with AIMAR and not CAMBIASSO . I thing this is suitable time to change BASILE to BATISTUTA or MARADONA to be a national coach . If no , world cup 2002 memory will be continue for ARGENTINA in World cup 2010 . Now no matter what happen and no matter how many game you lose i’ still support ARGENTINA . No illore para mi ARGENTINA poerque yo siempre contigo . I don’t how to explain how i feel when you lose . If you cry i also will cry .ARGENTINA PARA SIEMPRE . VAMOS…VAMOS…VAMOS..ARGENTINA…TODAVIA…..

Great insightful posts from Aizaz, miany & Vick.

People be free to be emotional thats what football brings out in us what attracts us to this game.

I’m sure the AFA have all the modern training techniques already & personell involved in preparing a team ie video analysts & pyschologists.

If not then the set up could do with some alterations.As Alexa says we need to extract the tiniest advantages we can.

If we need a coach in future I’d plump for Wenger even though that is a pipe dream. The problem is the AFA cannot afford to hire an expensive foreign coach.

Its also a blow to national pride to a team considered one of the worlds greatest(despite the lack of recent sucess) .So the selection would again be from within who knows maybe Tocalli.

But the tactical flexibility as raised by several posters needs to be questioned even a fundamental re-evaluation of the formation used.

Last year after the debacle we argued on this blog whether to drop the likes of Ayala.

I think we can persevere with Zanetti as Maldini has done but for some they should seriously consider their futures.

And as for G.Milito & Pato they should not be allowed anywhere near the national team again.

Basile & his technical staff will be analysing the games & seeing where the weaknesses are & how to bring in new personell to rectify this & changes to tactics.

We’ve still got the u20 & u17 cups & the Olympics next year. One has to wonder why up the age of 23 Albiceleste teams are very sucessful & thereafter do not just quite make it.

All the more perplexing considering our kids have caught up in stature to their main European rivals.

We have after all made several finals without sucess.

The reaction to Brazil’s win here in the UK press has been overwhelmingly negative.Its been seen as a triumph of pragmatism over beauty. Particular focus has been made of the level of fouling & the failure of the referee to clamp down on it.

Perhaps if FIFA did insist its referees did what they were supposed to do more sides would & could start playing the beautiful game.

Its for all to see , the NT
are not mentally or physically strong enough .Everytime they meet a strong team they have problems . Remember the wars against Kamerun , England and Holland. Player for player
we are better than these teams , but they play a very quick compact game .
The former coach of Norway , Drillo , said before the game with Sweden in 2002 that Arg was no match for Sweden , and he was right. Arg always tries for the last beautiful pass , but the odds is that you most likely will miss. More modern teams alway try to get the ball in the box with as few moves as possible . We must also do that in games we have problems.

Basile is to blame and no one else. Someone pointed out earlier, that with this guy its either flaming hot or freezing cold. And after five flaming hot ones, we got a real chill.

Look – its not rocket science.When you have Messi and Tevez, and Riquelme in your team, there will be fantastic / eye-pleasing football. It was like that under Peckerman too.

Messi, Tevez, Riquelme will play brilliantly regardless of who is the coach. We need someone who will make the midfielders run about more, the defence more air-tight. Sadly, this will not happen under Basile.

I couldnt care “two sh!ts” for the “beautiful game” – I just wanna se us win!!!

1. Basile out.
2. Veron out.
3. Ship out Ayala and heinze from backline (keep Zanetti).
4. Keep Crespo … none of this Palaccio, Aguero or Higuain business. Crespo is still no1 poacher. He can keep going till next world cup (aged 35).

VAMOS ARGENTINA.

My team listing the MUST PLAYS and the VACANCIES:

———-vacant —————
–ZANETTI MILITO vacant vacant–
——-MASCHERANO vacant ——–
—MESSI RIQUELME TEVEZ—–
———-CRESPO—————

Bring Maradona to the coaching staff? This is part of the problem!! Stop relishing the past, Maradona was great but he is done period. I insist that the problem with Argentina is that they insist on comparing themselves to Brazil claiming that there is no brazilian superiority while affirming it with the argentinian desire to “measure” up to Brazil!! The comparison game sucks and means nothing in the end, all it does it put pressure on the players that should not be there to begin with. After the first goal Argentina’s psychological flaws when facing Brazil kicked into high gear! It reminds me of the complex of Denmark facing Spain,or Brazil facing Uruguay or Mexico facing the USA.
Why blame Brazil for having four dungas? That is their strategy and they stuck to it and it worked for them. Kris, you complain about the difficulty of playing when surrounded by adversaries who circle thir wagons around you? Well, that is what they did to Pele,Maradona, Zidane, Romario and others but unlike Messi and company the truly great ones find a way because that is why they are great ones. I guess the logical conclusion is that despite all the fuzz Messi is not a Maradona yet, he is still growing and hopefully will not be marked by this defeat but rather come out in great form and style.

Riquelme? I feel sorry for him as he is a great player but as usual he is being blame for the result as if the other side didn’t have anything to do with it? It seems Mineiro has the playbook on Riquelme neutralizing him brilliantly.

Peace and there will be more games ahead.

pd: Brazilian fans ought to be more gracious instead of being offensive and this should stick to argentinians who had purchased sandals and flags to step on BRazil’s flags down in Venezuela. Soccer should be about brotherhood not hatred.

Vick,

I agree with you that given space we will succeed. But when the space is tight we cannot operate.

The main problem lies with the COACH; in today’s games at the highest level, it is a coach’s games. As Asil stated earlier in a previous post,it is a game of chess choregraphed and controlled by the coach.

As Debasich stated above, we need somebody of the caliber of Mourinho who is ruthless and will not give his strategy to the media before the game is won! Both Pekerman and Basile did that because they feel pressured by their own media.

You should notice I did not say anything much earlier about our past 4 wins because Basile was truly not tested; Mexico has improved tremendously but they are not world class and so are all the other teams that we beat recently such as Peru etc.

I wanted to give Basile a chance and unfortunately he blew it, not because he did not try, but simply because he does not have the skill just like Pekermann did not have that very important ingredient that is of utmost importance at the highest level. Can you think on your feet when unforseen circumstances take place on/off the field?

If Argentina cannot afford a top notch foreign coach, then I do not see us winning wc2010. The problem lies within the argentinean psyche. This can be removed ONLY with a foreign coach. There is no two ways aabout it.When did we win the last wc1986? Have we not waited long enough? Argentinean coaches have got their chance.

Vick, there is no need to be emotionally sad if one understand where the problem lies. To me it is the coach. Therefore, it does not bother me that my beloved Riquelme did not perform.He will always remain my slow magician and he will always hold a special place in my heart because he is a creative genius..

I am surprised that the Argentinean public is willing to wait for so long for victory given that they produced so many talents year after year… They should demand a foreign coach and can even finance it in part if that what it takes to win back the glory that is theirs because they play the game so beautifully! If I were an argentinean, I would simply do that because of argentina’s uniqueness approach to football which has won them fans in every corner of the globe!

I hope to hear from Alfio…

Thanks Vick and cheer up because your team is not at fault. Basile had no STRATEGIC or TACTICAL response in the second 45 minutes. That is the simple truth… and there lies the solution.. so why be upset when you understand what is going on?

Did Drazil really win this? or did Argentina loose it?. Argentina attacked like they were playing 2nd class team which gave Brazil the first goal. Little defense and bad luck gave Brazil the second goal and the was the end of it.
I think Argentina out classed Brazil but lost the game. I blame the loss to bad preparation and stradegy.

Did Drazil really win this? or did Argentina loose it?. Argentina attacked like they were playing 2nd class team which gave Brazil the first goal. Little defense and bad luck gave Brazil the second goal and the was the end of it.
I think Argentina out classed Brazil but lost the game. I blame the loss to bad preparation and stradegy.

Did Drazil really win this? or did Argentina loose it?. Argentina attacked like they were playing 2nd class team which gave Brazil the first goal. Little defense and bad luck gave Brazil the second goal and the was the end of it.
I think Argentina out classed Brazil but lost the game. I blame the loss to bad preparation and stradegy.

Ken, nice to hear you again. I’m cool now.

Sorry, if I offended you guys regarding of Ayala being “cursed”. Yes, he’s great player. But, something was not right about this game. It’s the way we lost the game. 3-0? “Too easy” for Brazil? There’s must be something we didn’t do it right.

Question is, what did Mexico or Uruguay do that we didn’t do?

Can’t blame entirely on defense, especially centerbacks, coz they were busy trying to cover Mascherano who was battling in midfield alone.

This game was very similar to Brasil / Mexico.
The losing team went down a goal on an
impressive piece of individual skill by the goal-
scorer and then lost its composure and gave up another goal. The difference was that Brasil
fought back furiously in the second half while Argentina just laid down. My first instinct
would be to indict Argentina for a general lack
of character. But a better explanation is probably fallout from the WC loss to Germany. There is
no way Argentina loses that match based on the merits and it was like the hopelessness of that
weird loss returned as soon as Brasil went up a goal.

I think that the senior side needs to take a good look at the under 20 side.
Three reasons:
1. They change tactics according to the games and the work rate of the players is phenomenol.
2. The attack is excellent but then again the defence of the team is also solid.
3. Look at their size, and yet they outplayed the Czech Republic (physically strong and tall), and the Poles who are also a very physical side.
4. When they lose possession they hustle the opposition and don’t let them play.
They combine the great passing game with a good solid defence.
I think maybe Tocalli is a better coach than Basile.

First, now I love Argentina more and hate Brazil more.

here is what I would do:

-Basile out.
-Batistuta and Diego Simeone to coach, either one or both of them together one being an assistant. young and modern.
-give Maradona an important role in the NT, he is a winner and we lack winning mentality.
-the best Argentina players like Riquelme should never play for small teams like villareal, AT. madrid, westham, or any 2nd tier team. They should only play for top european teams. There the winning mentality will grow as they will be able to face big pressures coz those team play for championships while in small clubs, the players are not required to do much so no outside or in-game pressure which kills that winning mentality. Those players who play for small teams have a shock in big games for Argentina and that cost the team many trophies in the after-maradona era.

Now comes the preparation for 2010 coz thats the next big thing. I dont think we can win it with basile, we can win games with him but not the cup. Let’s hope 2010 will be the year the drought will say goodbye to Argentina. We need a keeper, a defender to replace ayala, left back to replace Heinze, and striker like Crespo. We will be good to go.
I am so optimistic about this generation, but the pressure on them is so high and it gets stronger as long as they win a cup.

Vamos Argentina. I still love you.

Albo, what and how is the reaction in Argentina, the press, the people?

*it gets stronger as long as they win a cup = as long as they dont win a cup

Ortega98, “hate”? why hate? This is just a game and when these guys get back to Europe they are old buddies enjoying the perks of wealth and fortune while you guys are here discussing hate? This is madness

Perhaps what is needed in Argentina is a foreign coach but would they do this? Argentina like Brazil is a proud country perhaps with a deeper sense of pride that is borderline arrogant (no offense intended) similar to that of Mexico and while that is good it also boxes people into a mentality where they believe their own fairytales…..I.E. Messi is the new Maradona etc…..Even in defeat the fairytales disallow a reasoned analysis of why Argentina is stuck for so many years now instead I see people blaming the coach, specific players, the soccer association, the referee, fouls, the brazilians are too big, the sun was too bright, blah, blah…..No, the reasons are all inside the mindset of the team and the lack of leadership because talent does not equate leadership and oddly enough Dunga is a reflexion of this as we can agree that he was not a great player but he was focused, disciplined and he brought a sense of strong leadership when he was a player and he is doing the same as a coach. Right after the win he came out saying that those who opted out of the cup will have to earn their place in the team in response to a question about Ronaldinho and Kaka now, that takes balls because Ronaldinho and Kaka are players that any country would love to have in their team but Dunga is standing on his disciplinarian approach which is required when a team has too much talent, conflictive talent at times. Argentina needs a Dunga not a Maradona as a coach and as a field leader.

I guess Argentina’s next game is the friendly vs Norway on August the 22th. I have tickets for the game….I’m hoping for a new coach and some new players. Simeone or Tocalli…..Simeone is a true winner! Hope to see Aguero in that game too.
Still I am crying…………

daystar—

you made the best case I’ve read for watching the under20 side.

Ortega- interesting comment about riquelme. the problem is that those big teams do not want to rely on creative players like riquelme any more.

it seems that the owners of the game and the fans of the game are going in completely different directions.

messi is still better than robiho will ever be

brazil changed there style to beat us, they played euro style and they know how to beat us

good coaching where as basile lets the world know how we will play

I am a gringo so I am going to make an analysis compared to Basketball but before I do this i must state that the first goal changed the whole game because it really allowed brasil to hunker down as would have Uruguay or Mexico if they scored first on us. I do not totally give up on Basile or the beautiful passing game strategy but you have to have the speed at the back to control the counters when they happen. That is all!! If we have the ball 60% of the time and the other team 40% then we will still have to defend but how can you defend strong counters when you hae only one player that can match their speed? Mascerano was the only guy with enough speed to keep up so then it becomes a race rather then skill. Argentina has to develope some big strong defenders as this is our weakness. In basketball Argentina would be the team with a great point guard and great outside shooting with some great two guards and small forwards that everyone would love to see play but at some point in the tournament their shooting would be a little of and they would play a team with some great atheletes that could hound thier shooters all game. This is what happend to Argentina in these tournaments. we have to place on the field a team that can not be marked out like that and that can defend the counter. Dunga must of had a fule that anywhere on the field 30 yards out Messi and Roman were to be fouled. He also new that with his defensive height the set pieces would be difficult. He also could see that other then messi tevez and Roman the rest of the players were not much of a threat. We have to have a solid back four that is fast and stong and then mascerano in front of them. That leaves 5 positions that then shold be filled by skilled and offensive players but we can not build a team where we must compensate for a defense that i could ouit run and I am 40. The lesson to be learned is that speed kills!!! If we had some speed at the back it ends 0 to 0 worst case as Brasil would not ahve scored ar all with the pathetic passing they did in the build up. Their only chance for scoring was out running the backline and on three occasions they did that. Argentina GET SOME SPEED IN THE BACK!!! PLEASE DONT GIVE UP ON THE BEAUTIFUL GAME JUST GET THE RIGHT DEFENDERS IN THERE!!!!!

I’m pretty sure Messi will be massive next season.
I hope the squad recover from this setback, coz if we as fans feel so depressed after last night, what must they be feeling?
Someone asked how come Mexico and Uruguay played so well against Brazil but we can’t, i think the answer to that is that they had nothing to lose and everything to gain, because no one really classed them as winning those matches.
I thought the first goal was an error by Ayala, but, even so we did try to get back into the game. The second goal though killed us off, after that the players didn’t believe that they could win and you could see that in the way they played in the second half.

Oh yeah I cant help but say that any true lover of the beautiful game would see Brasils strategy as a enemy to all that was once magnificent about the Brazilian game. There shoiuld be and must be some sort of elevated punishment as the foul count goes up and up. This is trully sad when a player is mauled from behind everytime he touches the ball . i don tknow how you over come that unless you start bombing away the long passes. Any slow build up can be stopped with one well placed foul and that was the brasil strategy no question aboiut it. Anyone with eyes could see that brasil was not going to let Argentina pass is more that 5 or 6 times without a foul. Sad Sad!!

it’s weird how one loss can change everyone’s tone and viewpoint. Before the game, we all hailed Basile and how great our team us. Now you want to throw them all in the gutter. Thank goodness you all aren’t in charge. You can’t overreact so quickly to the events that transpired yesterday.

give it some time to breathe, sink in and I’m sure changes will be made. It’s also good for the likes of Tevez, Messi and all for whom winning has come so easy, to experience this and swallow the pill of misery.

To end on a slightly positive note, I cannot help but wonder how the game would have changed had Roman’s shot not hit the crossbar, that ridiculous save by their goalie, Cucho’s pass that went through 8/9 men in the box and went harmlessly away, the 3 shots in succession by our players only to have all of them be blocked….

As a fan, I’m totally crushed by what happened yesterday. like someone took my guts out and stepped all over it. But this is life, this is how it goes sometimes….

Oh yeah let me add. I love this game !! You never know what might happen lets make sure and get behind this u 20 team because despite our sadness their efforts are very impressive. my wife commented last night that she had never seen so many players that seem to run all out all game as the u-20 team does.

Where’s the width gone from our game? If I remember correctly in the world cup we had width but in this tournament there was a decided lack of it.

Fab, I hope you are right because I have enjoyed Messi’s play so far but the fact right now is that in this tournament Robinho made the difference for his team while Messi did well but was not the player who made the difference. Messi is growing and while he is still a step below players like Ronaldinho and Kaka he will hopefully develop while avoiding the traps that destroyed Maradona but Robinho and Cristiano Ronaldo are also up there with him and we already have Alexander Pato approaching so I guess the good thing is that we will have players for some time to come.

Skywalker I don’t think that had Riquelme scored the result would have been different. Brazil came out in top form and dominated period. I like how Riquelme came out and congratulated the brazilians acknowledging their superiority in the game, true champions are like that, humble in defeat and gracious in victory.

U know i still can’t get my head round the fact that we lost, i got up this morning hoping it had all been a bad dream, but now it’s starting to sink in, there is no justice!

I hate what Dunga has done to the national team, but i understand why he did it. He was charged to win games. All the points we are making i’m sure brazilian fans made over and over when they played so well but couldn’t win when it counted.

but i think that there is a larger issue in football, one that fifa really needs to do something about –

the fans want to see fun attacking football. fifa should encourage good attacking football. at the club level, teams like barcelona can lose the liga title to real madrid even though they were even in points and they scored 13 (or something ) more goals than real madrid. The fouling has gotten really bad, cynical, a coaching tactic rather than a inevitablity in the flow of a game, blanket fouling etc.

these things can be regulated. Do the fans have a say? I see fifa as a bunch of cynical fat cat beaurocrats lining their own pockets and sleeping with every suit from nike and adidas,butr bigger changes have been made.

i think i’m going to start an email campaign.

hahaha Ali please ronnie is done and after that no one can compare to messi be serious to yourself. Messi is going to be around for a long time hopefully he buys bigger shin guards.

Mane…

I have to respectfully disagree. If Roman scores and it’s 1-1, it’s a brand new game. Arg wouldn’t have pushed up field so hard and would have been able to withstand the counter attack better. All you need to know about our Defence was that one 2 seperate occasions, Roman was the last man back defending the Brazilian counter-attack. that shows you just how far up field our defenders were.

but it’s a moot point. using the same line of thinking, a Mexico fan will wonder what if their player’s shot didn’t hit the cross bar and went in instead.

I do however agree with you in that Brazil came in with a clear game plan in mind and ruthlessly, tactically and methodically executed it to perfection.

Also if Brasils tactic is so great why were they one penalty kick hittng the pole from losing? Luck is also needed ! Lets not give them to much credit. I would also add the 5 of Robinhos goals came against Chile i dont think that he looked good at all against Mexico, uruguay, or Argentina for being such a supoosedly great player.

Hi Alexa,
I think it is not fair to single out Dunga for the change that started with Coutinho a couple of decades ago. Brazil was entertaining but to win in a world where soccer became more represented by the german or italian styles requires more than playing entertaining soccer. Yesterday’s game was a clear example of this, Argentina was playing the “beautiful game” but it was the team that created the beautiful game style which won by playing a very european style of soccer and why not? Why now? Brazil has about 800 players overseas mostly in Europe so they are now used to the concept of european style. Where was Robinho yesterday? He was assisting in defense!! Could we imagine Pele or Tostao doing that sacrifice? If anything it could be said that Brazil might be entering into a new stage where their individual talent mixed with physical strenght could propel it to more worldcups. Just look at that solid brazilian defense yesterday? They kept Messi and Tevez out and Riquelme’s over 30 free kicks kept on bouncing off the heads of those defenders. Start the campaing and I will participate because like you I prefer attacking soccer but I am affraid we cannot stop the wave.

toddutah – you are saying everything that I’m thinking.

mane- i didn’t mean to single out just Dunga. He’s the architect of this team, but Brazil has been headed in this direction for a long long time.

Maybe I will start this campaign. I’m so tired of being heartbroken by these games.

Alexa, perhaps we should turn to futsal, more action and speed.

I wonder if this loss will result in a return of the “bilardista” style. Basile is an old romantic of the Menotti style, the flair that entertains but doesn’t win. It’s odd that some cry out for Maradona to become part of the coaching ignoring that Maradona’s team won under the Bilardo style, less flambuoyant and more ruthlees, effective, a-la Dunga one could say. I would think that if a bilardista is selected we would see a more physical and less entertaining style which begs the question of what role would Messi play in that team because Messi is weak, he is not a stocky and strong player like Maradona was. Robinho and Messi share the same physical flaw that would neutralize them against strong physical players.

Thanks Alexa that means a lot and means I must not be that crazy lol Roman is good but how can you blame him when he was mugged the whole game and one inch either way on those two shots and it goes in and it is a different game period. To say that roman was running back on two of their goals shows how bad he wanted this game. I still think that the future is bright with Messi, Aguero, Gago, Mascerhano but it is time to find some better defenders with more speed. Let me say my thougts one more time. Speed Speed Speed we need more speed at the back!!!!!! One more time We need more speed at the back and we are set!!! The rest of the pieces are there!! Guys we played well this tournament but go tbeat because our big wekaness that we all know about was expoused. Teams can stack there players in the back and counter on our slow defenders. That does not take a rocket scientist to figure out. What if we had a back line that was not so slow? how would the strategy work then? My answer is that it would not and then teams would have to try and build up more. guys it is very simple No new Coach No new team strategy just get some fast defenders and for me Diaz and Burdisso are a start. I said fast defenders that does not mean that he can play full back or forward it means that he can outrun the forward and get the ball . Period ! I am sick of oiur defenders having to be these gifted skilled guys that can not run we need speed at the back in order to play at least 4 offensive players in stead of two or three like we did against Brasil. We had 8 guys that are very good at passing and three guys that Brasil was worried about the ball going to. We need four solid defenders and six guys including Mascherano that teams have to mark. Please for the love of pete get some speed in the back !!

By the way Messi can beat any defender in the world one on one the job of the team is to get the forward into a one on one or better situation. Messi will and is a great player so please don tblame him for not getting by three brasil defenders everytime he got the ball.

Yep, without a rule change, attacking football as the Argentinians wish to play is on the way out.

In the NBA in America, when teams became too defensive, they introduced the shot clock to force more offensive play (obviously, you can’t have a shot clock in football, but I’m talking about a major rule change to force offensive play). I just don’t see something like it happening though. FIFA is far too conservative and rarely will make a radical change like this. Also, the defensive minded approach favors the European teams, and FIFA is Euro-centric.

I commend Argentina for trying to revive beautiful football, but it just isn’t going to win trophies. All it will do is create nice highlight reels every time you face a minnow.

futsal – -ah speed and attack! But there is something about that wide green field, all lit up at night, like it’s the whole universe or something. I love the “bigness” of football.

toddutah – i think that you are right – we needed more speed in the back, and also a bigger sense of security. I’m talking about players who have a sense of ownership. Like Thuram against portugal in the last WC, where you just knew that NOTHING was going to get past him.

Arg team will always base itself on attacking football because that’s were their talented players are. But we do need some of that mean SOBness back in the back. But really fast.

By the way- there is a rumor that Palacio might be going to Arsenal. I think that would be much better for him, instead of going to Barcelona to warm the bench.

I think vs Brazil/Euro powerhouses, along with equipping ourselves with more Defenders with speed, we need to start playing the double number 5 system. Sure it takes a lot away from our offence, but atleast our D won’t be so exposed.

Put Gago and Masher on the same line just ahead of our D to provide for more cushion against counter attacks.

> … but it was the team that created the beautiful game style which won ….

Mane, Brazil created the beautiful game? ROTFMAO….

first of all congrats to brazil.
i am really dissapointed but deep in me was excepting this results so not as dissapointed as the world cup.
-i know it hurts but thats how it is.
-i see people want to play defensive style like italy.
the problem is italy has the defenders to do so but who are our defenders??????
so this is out of question right now.
i honestly dont rate our defenders.
ayala was great but now is finished.
milito is not quality,mistake prone,small,has no speed.
heinze same as milito everytime those 2 got the ball it is scary.
zanetti i think he is quality but his time has passed too,i dont think he will still be around for 2010.
burdisso he is a fighter,tough but is not world class.
so ist diaz.
ibarra is old.
so is sorin.
it is a shame that our 2 most talented defenders are no whre near the nt team.
i thought gonzalo was our future but as it looks right now hé is he will never come back.because of this damn injuries.
the other world class defnder samuel lost his focus since the real move.he is worldclass but out of form and he will never come back i guess.
we need a player similair to zanetti,a player similair to sorin but bigger and stronger,2 big centre backs with speed 1 who reads the game the other for the dirty work.
i know we have some talents like garay,gonzalo,fazio,insua,cahais… but the question is will they be ready for 2010 because they are young.
pato time is over thank god we have ustari and carizzo.
yesterday i saw fear in the eyes of our offensive line because they knew if they lose the ball by attacking it would almost result in a goal for brazil.
they need security to perform.
thing like the first goal,pato´s insecureties,have an psychological affect on them.
we need security,speed,to know when to make the right fouls,and play tough and more agressive at the back.
veron time is over.
almost evry pass he passed it to brazil player.
cambiasso is simply not good enough.
we need to start to play with double 5.
at least man try it.
mascherano is must,and gago is world class but needs time,so is banega.
i know it maybe dont work at first but with time it will come good.
if we can afford to give 1000000 chances to players like scaloni why cant we afford to give 100000 chances to test mascherano g with gago,or later with banega thos are world class talents.
we need to start to rely on them.
so we have 1 goalkeeper 4 defenders,2 defensive midfielders.
that make it 7 players.
we can than affoerd to play 4 offensive players and would be balanced.
will be contunied……… later

Don’t you guys think that our defence was more solid under Pekerman, cos remembering the world cup that team couldn’t be beaten in 120 minutes, it took 3 bad substitutions and a penalty shoot out to oust us from the world cup.

wow guys you still around here?
I was just wondering if there would be anybody on this blog and I find the same crew, suffering lovers of argentina ’sob’ anyways since you are all here I just wanted to say SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!! brazil rules over argentina and ou guys would save yourselves a lot of pain if you switched allegiance to the board, remember, resistance is futile or in this case basile. sorry gorditos but argentina will continue to be the second fiddle to brazil and that is one of those things written in stone, part of the earth’s dna just like brazil having the most beautiful girls in the world. bye and see you in 2010 when I drop by a gloat again after brazil beats the boludos and send them home crying again.

btw, is all mighty ken still here acting up as if he is the oracle or has he finally left?

sad pathetic basement dwelling troll alert.

KEN, you fucking prick stop being Ali.

Ayala
Zanettia
Crespo
Veron
Pato

This was there last game in the NT.

Argentina made the same miskates agaisnt Alegria. Came in to Confident then all of it was lost not even 5 minutes in when Brazil Scored.

A new generation is coming.
And its packing a punch.

Basile is good as gone.

And I am signing off from this Website for good.

Bye

I thoroughly enjoyed the game. It went almost exactly as I thought it would, I predicted a 4 – 0 score line.

It’s time for Argentine fans to face the reality that there are different tiers of footballing nations. Brazil, Italy and Germany are the Gold Standard and a VERY exclusive club.

Enjoy the fact you reached the finals and now concentrate on qualifying for the 2010 World Cup.

Regards

john shut the helll up and get the hell out of here idiot

You’re crowing too much, man did’nt your mama change your nappy this morning, you know John there’s a bad smell of some sort of putrificious crap coming from you, omg it’s …bullllllshitttttttttt!

If brazil is gold standard then the standard has dropped, argentina are platinum nothing tops that moron.

It’s very very clear —
people who gloat after the fact are the ones who were shitting in their pants before the game.

About the Axis powers and Brazil — How many people are chatting on those blogs? None? Didn’t think so.

I knew that the low lifes would come in and gloat and then is fine with me because I am strong enough and old enough to realize that life and sport has its cycles and I firmly believe that we are at the beginning of a great cycle for Argentina. yes along the way there will be loses and suffering but there will be the moments of joy and happiness. We lost in the final of the copa america to a good team but not a better team. We might win the u 20 world cup. We are a world power in futbol and brasil and everyone knows it. All I can say is that my belief is strong that we will bounce back from this defeat and we will bring great futbol for all the world to see. Brasil I am so glad that you are enjoying your great victory but anyone with eyes can see that this brasil is not the dominant teamn it once was. just ask Portugal and Mexico and Uruguay what they think of playing brasil? Then ask them what they think of playing Argentina? Everyone the future is bright. It was one bad game and we call all see the probleme and evern at that we are so close so very close dont let the 3 to 0 score fool you. Brasil knows . Those players know that this Argentina side is one to be feared and respected. All you can do is learn from mistakes and imporve next time. my hope is that is what the team and its fans will do.

again –toddutah– you wrote exactly what i was thinking

Troll alert again. Germany gold standard ? Well if you love dull mechanical football without an ounce of invention go ahead.

Argentina is recognised as a gold standard nation as you the miserable wretch that you are put it.

Argentina has fans all over the world & their numbers are grwoing rapidly for their style of play.

Generalizations like Brazil has the most beautiful girls in the world come from morons who probably have never ventured forth beyond their front door & experienced the real world.

Like Golazo says Coco & his staff will pick over the pieces & modify whats required.

As for inventing the beautiful game one could & should almost say Uruguay first & then credit Argentina know how at creating prototypical total football.

The pursuit of excellence & beauty is something that should not be abandoned after just one upset. Boasts are made to be returned to the sender & the physical style of play is required then it is readily available.

An iron fist in a velvet glove so to speak.

Width indeed as provided by the likes of Maxi & Sorin hugging the flanks & drawing out flank defenders in the WC was missing.

At times we to tend to overpass looking for the ultimate pass.Once in a while it would be good just to vary it. A quick ball into the box is all that predators like Tevez,Aguero & Cavenaghi need to convert into a goal.

Alexa I’d like Palacio to move to somewhere where he’ll be guaranteed firt team football like Zaragoza. I fear he might end up the same way as Saviola & Maxi Lopez parked on the bench.

Its also imperative Higuain gets a loan move.Bilbao would be ideal considering his Basque roots.

My goodness, it sucks that you guys are getting trolls who just want to dance on your grave, but you need to face reality.

Beautiful football is dead, because it is easily beaten by the style Brazil just played. More physical and athletic. Argentina, right now, is a good footballing nation when it plays a minnow. Creative, inventive…but it’s not a winning style when played against a physical team with similar skill level and more discipline.

It’s just a shame, because Riquelme deserves better, but his confidence must be in tatters.

2010 Formation

———-Carrizo

Burrisdo—-Milto——Heinze

———Gago—Mascherano–

Messi——–Sosa——-Aimar

——-Higuain—-Tevez——-

Golazo,

I am not Ali. I wish I can make you become intelligent. But I cannot. You are very naive… Instead of letting yourself be emotionally charged by some fouls, use your head and think, it would do you more good…
Ken

Ken,

This is why I know all this people are you.

You all love Riquelme and you say you love him too.

You write the same.

I remember you saying you get us mad to bring the best out of us?

I don’t know why your doing this because it makes no sense and finally

Brazil will ALWAYS be better than Argentina. Just face it Argies… you guys are and will always be South America’s 2nd best team.

Pedro and you will always be a retard

Boy I am glad that we dont lose to the supposed minnows like Brasil does? mexico 2 brasil 0? Brasil good win ! That was it we all know who was playing the better futbol going into th egame but still it was a great win and I hope that it fills your country with pride and you decide to keep playing that way and then we will perfect our style with the right players and coaches and we will be holding the cup with honor and pride in 2010. Believe me we are much closer to playing that beautiful futbol and winning than the copouts that are Brasil.

Ayala killed you guys. Without Ayala and with
a little luck, the halftime score could have been 1-0 Argentina. Aside from Baptista’s goal, I
really did not see Brasil do much. They didn’t
have to. Reminds me a lot of Roberto
Carlos’ screwups playing a big part in both
of Zidane’s goals in the ‘98 WC final, France
then adding a garbage goal when Brasil brought
everyone up, and the whole world then proclaiming a team that should have lost to
Paraguay and/or Italy one of the greatest teams
ever. Uruguay had Brasil dead to rights and
just choked. Brasil is even luckier to win this
time than in ‘04 when they scored on the last touch of each half and did not do much the rest of the time. More a weird game than a total catastrophe for Argentina in my opinion.

Argentina2010,

I believe it is you that wrote that negative comments about me. How do I know? Your last sentence reminds me of a similar one you wrote in a previous post of a different string.
I am sorry that you misunderstood my approach. it is not meant to get anyone mad. It is only meant to provoke so that one is spontaneous. This is just a casual blog

With regards to me liking Riquelme, I will always do and will say it openly whether Argentina wins or not!

Todd Utah,

How are you doing? Do all your kids like Argentina? I see from your posts you are very hopeful which is a good thing. However, I believe our problem is more serious than you believe. I have explained it above. I bet you if we do not have a foreign coach, we will be gloating again in South Africa just like yesterday… We simply have too many star studs to lose that badly. As I said above, there was no strategic response from El Coco in the second 45 minutes. Liverpool through Benitez proved that it can be done by coming from behind through strategical approach. I think it was in 2005 CL final in Istanbul if I remember correctly.

concaicao – that’s an excellent post. I felt after this game the way i felt when brazil lost to france after france couldn’t even manage to score in all the games leading up to the final, One magnificent performance by zidane in the final and all of a sudden history is completely rewritten. it sucked.

thedude – you are one of the trolls

toddutah – again, like you’re reading my mind

riquelme seemed to handle the loss pretty well. i think that the argentina fa should go into some agreement with boca to keep him in argentina, because that’s the only way we stand a chance for him to keep on playing at all, and with the nt. some people have been falling back on the riqwuelme bottled it routine again, but this tournament has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that the nt is a lesser team without him.

for people saying that Arg only beat minnows – that’s pathetic , foolish talk that bears no resemblance to reality. Arg beat Mexico and France, and basically all the teams they play. Here’s the news flash — everybody loses to everybody. Brazil loses to france ALL THE TIME. Italy loses, Germany loses. Arg;s problem isn;t losing to the big guys. Arg’s problem is winning that final game, whoever it is.

Guys, I am again tired of hearing “Argentina lost coz they play beautiful football.” Please stop it.

Argentina lost because they couldnt play beautiful football on the final.

I have to say that I agree with thedude, Brazil won this game with a german-like soccer style which is ugly but effective. The beautiful game as presented by the Brazil of 1970 is indeed dead until a team appears that can combine the physical aspect of the new soccer with the flair of yesteryear and that is where I think Africa might just kick in in the years ahead. I doubt that Argentina or other southamerican team can come up there (except Brazil) because of their physical attributes or lack thereof and I make an exception for Brazil because they do have lots of black players who are just physical and if not just look at Adriano, Ronaldo and Julio Baptista. This is a crossroads for the beautiful soccer and I hope Africa can bring the mix in but that is years in the future still.

It is possible that the Baptista goal was a
designed play drawn up from watching film.
The early Brasil goal against the Chilenos by
Juan definitely was. The long-ball isolation
aspect was somewhat similar to the Bergkamp
goal from the ‘98 WC quarterfinal. The
playing the ball laterally away from the primary
defender short of a secondary defender
really reminds me of the early Kaka goal from
the ‘05 Confed Cup final. And, the finish was
similar to the Owen goal from the ‘98
England game. Possible that the defense has
become so structured or some of the players so
predictable that Dunga and Jorghino were
able to exploit observable tendencies to
produce the first goal. Unlikely, but if true,
should really worry everyone. The last three
games going back to the Confed Cup have not been close – although Argentina did destroy
Brasil in the home qualifier.

What really happened.

Argentina always fuck up when they play Brazil if Crespo isn’t playing. Argentina came in way too confident and when Julio Baptista scored all of it was gone. Same thing happened agaisnt Algeria. Argentina started to play so scared and the only one who kept his cool was Riquelme. The Defense was so scared they scored a own because they were scared and after that they were fucked.

OK, whatever, Alexa.

I think it’s kinda funny that you start writing about how you want to start an email campaign to FIFA about how to change the game and promote attacking football – just like I advised. A rule change is all that will save beautiful football.

Do you usually take advice from trolls?

No wonder Argentina has a hell of a time in international football. High on emotion (woe is us, we’re so awesome, why can’t we win it all) and low on gumption. Don’t worry folks, if you’re like this in 2010, you’ll have a lot of fun when the rest of the board returns. Cheers.

Thank you Riquelme. I was thinking the same exact thing this whole 30 minutes while reading this blog.

First of all, stop blaming Basile. He’s a great coach and he and his team will make our team only stronger. on ole it shows his press conference and he said straight up “brazil played better and won” Which is the truth. Our defence and midfield need major improvements

Veron said after the loss “It is the era for the young players now” It’s true, and I think thats great because players like ayala and veron would not have made it to 2010 no matter what. Argentina needs to start looking for players to replace ayala pato veron cambiasso etc etc.

Like I said before the game, I can feel the Brasil era fade more and more each day. Yes, they won yesterday, big time, but i honestly think argentina has so much potencial.

All we have to do is have faith and wait… I still have so much faith in my country’s national team…

VAMOS ARGENTINA!

thedude- and you’ll be back to troll, i’m sure. some things never change.

I hear people talking about confidence this and that of the players but lets be honest these guys make a living on soccer. There are not that many people that can say they can live the rest of there lives free and easy getting paid great money to play an enjoyable game win lose or draw.. All of them will be able to sleep..Sure it hurts because the passion for there country is obviously there but you win you lose you try again you wake up the next day and get paid again..

Alexa, don’t let that troll get to you.
just ignore him.

Stop blaming Riquelme.
Without him, do you really think we will be in the final?

Hmm…looks like I am finally getting back to my normal self after a terrible day. Saw the parts of the match which I just refused to see and switched the tube off. Saw the post match ceremony where the now familiar sight of a heart broken bunch of figures looking around, lying down, not able to figure out what the hell has gone wrong or pondering on how cursed they are. It is now become officially branded as a statement in the eyes of the media that Argentina is a team of chokers. Be as it may I do not think any of my dear brothers and sisters in this community would ever hate this team. You know why? We are all a bunch of hard core romantics who choose to see things the way others won’t, who chose to accept a path which is difficult for others to take. As a youngster, I first saw team Argentina in action in the 90 world cup, where an unfashionable team took themselves to an undeserving final match led by a short man called Diego. I was not old enough to understand the quality of football I would eventually like, but my mom told me that the man had achieved things others could never imagine and thus he is special. It is not so much of surprise to me now that people with whom I share an ideological viewpoint and emotional comfort, all choose to love that man and the team he played for. I cried when he went down. I did not watch football or world cups so seriously till the last one again in my life. But if anybody asked me what football all about is, I could only say Argentina. I got mesmerized again by the display of brilliance again in the last Worldcup and I realized and felt so glad that it wasn’t mediocrity that I have so far been cheering for as a blind supporter. Then the heartbreaks, I started searching for consolations and justifications for myself for the seemingly illogical and unfair state of affairs with my beloved team and players. And here is few words that I can think of :

Vincent Van Gogh was a phenomenal talent who did not achieve anything through out his lifetime. It was after his death that the true value of his work has been recognized by the world. Every artist crave for the spark and minds eye that Van Gogh created in his paintings, and very few could proudly claim to be as liberated a mind as Van Gogh.

Andy Warhole, on the other hand achieved phenomenal success and recognition for his works and has influenced the way advertising and graphic art took its turn at the turn of 20th century. Yet, even Warhole would not dare to stand on the same pedestal with van Gogh because even his best efforts are mediocre in comparison to the work of a super genius.

Friends, we can cry for foreign coaches who might bring back silverware to Argentina, but if it is resorted to plane mediocre approach and systems I am sure none of us will be able to hold our heads high with any such achievements. There will be a time when there is a realization of what is being lost, much stronger than what we feel now, and those will be the times when we will cherish the moments of brilliance this bunch of “chokers” have displayed on the pitch before the finals.

So….Joga Bonito….Argentina……..

I couldn’t read all of the opinions in this thread.
I would have liked to, but my time is very short this week. (gotta make up for a week of great football I saw at Copa America and U20).

Argentina won’t change its style, at least while Basile or someone like him is in charge.
And that has nothing to do with results.
Some people talk about styles like if it was a matter of choice.
Well it’s not a matter of choice.
As a football manager or coach you work with what you have.
If you have tough players, football is tough.
If you have quality players, football is more attractive.
Sure, that is no ticket to a championship, it’s just the brand of game your team can show.
I wouldn’t dramatize this anymore.
Brazil scored on us 4 minutes into the game. Anybody who has played the game knows that that event changes things.
Argentina tried to reorganize their game but Brazilians did exactly what you have to do when find yourself 1-0 so early in the game.
And when the field is so wide open, chances for 3 or 4 goals are not uncommon.
Brazil deserved the win. Parabems!!!
But that is in no way a reason for us to change what we are building on.
Those are two separate things, make no mistake about it.
History is full of examples where quality football gets the results.
But it’s also covered with examples where the less attractive game prevails.
Again, we play with what we have and we have a whole bunch of kids with unbelievable skills coming up.
Actually, the future of argentinean football couldn’t look and has never looked as good as it is right now.
Saludos y arriba los ánimos

well thing i notice about these tournaments are the team that starts out great doesn’t usually win these tournaments. arg played great up to the final, all the games were too eazy and most of them were blowouts the games became even boring at times. the team never had any adversity and then brazil came and changed everything. finally real compition came and arg basically choked they were so used to getting things there way, and were unable to do that against a determined bra. for some reason bra always raises its game for arg why can’t arg do the same.
there are many serious issues the team needs to face and it starts with the defense. i love ayala alot but i have never seen him play so awful and i hope his nt career doesn’t end like this. but we need younger and quicker defenders. samuel needs to be recalled. he has speed, very strong in the air and makes tough tackles he also has good experience. partner him with burdisso i think we are good right there. we do need an upgrade at lb as for rb zabaleta is there. pato should retire, the midfield needs some changes as well. we have no wingers. c’mon cambiasso and veron do not provide width and neither are good crossers. lucho was non existant at this copa, so dissapointed with him. i would also love to see aimar and riquelme both start. at least for one game, just to give it a try. aimar on the left and roman in the middle. as for the rest of the team we have so much potential regardless of this loss we still do have a bright future.

I still have nightmare. I still cannot forget the final…

Oh no!

By the way, I’d love to see a Brazil versus Italy match or a Brazil versus Germany match.

I say this because these three teams play some ruthless football.

I can’t get over what Brazil did on Sunday.

As I wrote here after our loss, Brazil came with axes and whacked our players.

They either had to win, or WIN and they did win.

In the meantime, football has gone to the dogs.

I don’t feel bad for ARgentina. I hope they don’t change their beautiful game for that is the only reason as to why I got attracted to ARgentina.

Guys,
Here is a line up that i believe argentina should be trying out in future… Please post ur opinions on the same…

Ustari or Franco

Burdisso Milito Ayala Samuel

Gago Mashcerano

Riquelme

Messi Aimar or tevez

Crespo or palacio or Milito

I am stressing on having two proper defensive midfielders and Four proper defenders at the back… I dont know if playing Aimar on the left side makes sense, but i believe he can play anywhere. If we want more attacking, then take out gago and put Banega.. I really dont want us to toy with the defense anymore… enough overlapping full-backs…

I was very very disappointed by the defeat to Brazil. Indeed I was so confident the we were finally going to win a trophy. All in all I wish to say that we need to learn our lessons from this devastating defeat. It was great to see Argentina playing good football bad sad to see them falter at the crucial moment. The coach can come up with new strategies and give new players a chance to play especially in the defence which is obviously weak. I am a bit disappointed with those suggesting a foreign coach; this is utter nonsense.We have to keep it home a local coah period. We just have to keep our focus a take stock. Lets find out where the problem is especially as concerns playing against Brazil for it is so painful having to always lose against them.I have always believed that Argentina is better than Brazil!!!

Friends,

A bastard told me the result of la Copa. I didn’t watch the game.

I don’t understand. Really don’t. We had outstanding players. The best of the world. No excuse. This is a bad joke from our players. Maybe we don’t have enough leaders in the team. Why do we stop playing like this? A mental problem? Futbol is very strange. I’ll read all your posts soon guys.

Don’t cry people, this is only futbol.

Nice to hear from you again Maxi. Great post Albo.

Miany dont bring the Militos in . Samuel as far as I can see has had it too.

Saviola as I stated before Copa started brings more to the table in attacking threat & link up play & far more mobility than DM.

Heinze has been prevented from moving to Liverpool thus increasing interest from Real Madrid. Manchester Utd expect to sign Tevez on Wednesday presumably on a loan basis with a view to a buy out.

As Alexa mentioned Palacio has been linked with Arsenal in a potential £15M deal.

This is still a golden generation in terms of sheer talent. All the junior coaches & those at each club deserve full credit for adhering to the tenets of Argentine football.

These are some of possibles/ probables over the next three years & makes you realise how Argentina’s youth development is envied around the world.

Wenger himself described it as a veritable talent factory.Feel free to add you own favourites or who you think can be potential newcomers.

Goalkeepers
Ustari Carizzo

Central Defenders
Garay Gonzalo Ferrari Diaz Burdisso Abraham Grimi(also LB)

Full Backs
Fazio Mareque Pinola Zanetti Insua C.Rodriguez

Defensive /Central Mids
Gago Masche Lucho Biglia Gutierrez Cambiasso Ledesma Demichelis Banega

Attacking Mids
Riquelme Aimar Cardozo Messi Sosa Maxi

Strikers
Crespo Cavenaghi Tevez Saviola Aguero Zarate di Maria Higuain

Hye all . In my opinion AURELIUS your line is one of the line up . I also hope CRESPO can play for ARGENTINA until 2010 world cup . If he do that , he will same with CANIGGIA because he play for NT until 35 years old . Other than that i think the others CRESPO maybe is HIGUAIN , but i don’t know why BASILE didn’t call him . I think ARGENTINA must change their coach to BATISTUTA or OSCAR RUGGERI but i think the best coach for ARGENTINA is CARLOS BILARDO . Remember when world cup 1990 with BILARDO ARGENTINA win with brazil in round 16 . MARADONA & CANIGGIA can beat 9 brazillian player but i don’t know what happen now . VAMOS ARGENTINA…VAMOS ARGENTINA…..i always with you .

boohoohoohooohooooooooooo

don’t cry…you are always sooooo good…why can’t you ever win anything…boohoohooo..

maybe you can enter a concacaf tournament just to win something…waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

maybe this will make you feel better…

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kFvXVlfu4vs

What argentina needs is a strong midfield which breaks up play and feeds more skillful players.

i think it was a mistake to play veron (veron is weak we need battlers, i think we need to produce a player like gatusso) and riquelme can play like a pirlo, i would play gago instead of veron.

would be nice to have sviola playing to.

hats off to brazil, forget style know how to win.

we learnt that from the italians when they won the world cup.

Don’t cry and Chupa, Argentina..!

One more time Argentina had the top-stars. One more time Brazil had a B team. And one more time the Brazilian B team was hungrier than the big-names of the rival nation.

Brazil played a mediocre competition, with a mediocre coach, but this Sunday, the players put their hearts in the tips of their boots. Argentineans, who usually are considered brave and restless, could not match the amount of effort put by the famous duo Mineiro-Josué and defenders Juan and Alex. When playing at Corinthians Tevez and Mascherano never won a match against São Paulo of Mineiro and Josué. Today, it was no different.

There was also an aspect of luck. The Gods of football were with Dunga. With 4 minutes, Elano, who was replacing Gilberto Silva, got a long-pass to Júlio Baptista. The beast was called in the last minute to replace Zé Roberto. He dominated the ball and fired it. What a goal!

The early goal forced Argentina into the Brazilian trap. Argentina advanced all players in hopes of getting a tie still on the first-half. The result was lots of space in their defense for the Brazilian counter-attack, which was explored with efficiency. Argentina hit the post, Doni saved a shot, and all the chances for Argentina scoring ended there.

Elano got injured, and for the first-time Dunga made a surprising and efficient substitution. Daniel Alves crossed the ball which the veteran Ayala pushed against his own net. Luck? There was more coming up in the second-half.

Brazil used all the tricks of a side that is used to important matches. Tackled, wasted time, made Argentina nervous with the progression of the clock. Juan and Alex were superb. Maicon and Gilberto either. And now Messi knows who Mineiro and Josué are. Brazil needed to get only one counter-attack right. One!

Before the 25th mark, Vagner Love passed the ball and Daniel Alves again! The replacement of the replacement scored the third. Match was over. Brazil B Champions again! Argentina still in the hiatus of titles! What a dramatic tango…

Brazil won a tournament without a coach, without a reliable goal-keeper, without a striker who scores, without any stars , with a team worse than the one from 2004 and with all the shady people from CBF in control.

Argentina, next time we will send our U-15. This is a promise. Just don’t choke when facing the yellow jersey again.

Yes sir…Pal…thanks for all the caring and support. As for B team or U-15, provided the god and football luck in still on your side, you will not have a problem.
But pray for the same when you play agaist France too..may be the god is French!

I don’t think Argentina needs a foreign coach because there is nothing wrong with the way Argentina plays. You just need to add width and pace into the game. Players running down the flanks because against Brazil they were playing very narrow and very rarely got behind the Brazilian back four. Also pace at the back is very necessary, look at the under 20 team as an example of great linked passing movement combined with very fast effective defence, the under 20’s play with 2 number 5’s which i think our team needed on Sunday. The other thing which i think our team lacked was a good second string strategy of what to do if Riquelme is heavily marked.
But apart from that i don’t think that either Cambiasso or Veron passed the ball well, and truly i would have thought that Basile would have learnt from the September match against Brasil that Tevez and Messi cannot play upfront together against big physical sides. The only way to combine them both in one team is to have Messi in midfield with Tevez and a crespo-esque player playing upfront.
It reminds me of Pekerman who made a mistake in the England game and substituted Riquelme with five minutes to go and so ended up losing the game and then did the same thing against Germany. It seems to me that our managers don’t seem to learn from their mistakes until they have repeated them a couple of times, let’s hope that Basile has now learnt!
The future is bright the future is ARGENTINA.

And yes…thaks for giving all the football lessons to the u20 American team….

who is ALI?
why ALI=KEN?

The trolls. Guys I agree with the posts that say dont panic but we do need to open our eyes and see where changes need to be made. Obviously there is luck involved in every game and it was not with us but with all the skilled and talented players we have we need to put some strong and speedy chasers on this team. i agree that we are set at our d3efensive mid with Gago and Mashcerano who will both be two of the best number 5s in the world. That leaves our four offensvie players and four defenders. The foiur offensive is covered with Messi Roman Aimar Crespo as the ideal four for me. Defense I am somewhat more worried about. Not all four have to be dominant in speed but we need at least two barn burners. I like what I see from Burdisso and he has some height. I also liked what I saw from Diaz and I am not so sure Heinze woiuld not be a good fit if he were the token slow but skilled guy of the four. I could see a back four of Burdisso on the right Diaz and one more fast strong player in the middle and Heinze on the left. Goal keeper Cardisso. We will just have to watch the clubs and see who steps up this year.

SACK BASILE. HE’s A BUFFOON.

WE NEED NEW CENTRAL DEFENDERS WITh PACE!!

AND SHIP OUT VERON!! HE’S SURELY NOT GOING TO PLAY 2010 IN S.AFRICA!

Hi everyone..
did you miss me, i think not. i know i am not too nice when i post but i swear i want to respect everyone for one reason, which is i want to be respected back…
so let me share with you these thoughts…

i dont know why you argentinas are panicking?
you guys had the best team in the tournament. probably the best team in last year world cup.. after france of course..
and both times you lost because of bad luck and because your opponents excuted well…
so the only thing you have to do is left your heads up and start working again until something happen and it will happen i assure you..
when we lost against france in 1998 we believe we had the better team but we ended up losing 3-0 but we bounced back and won 2002 world cup… this is football. one day for you and the other against you..
i know in your case it has been 13 years against you but believe me it will end when it end…

BUT, there’s one advice i can give for you in your wait time for the rain.. plz pay attention to your brazilian friend and i swear i am sayin the truth and i am not trying to put anyone down and not trying to steal your pride or anything i am just trying to help… and the thing i would suggest that you do is try to cut down on your expectations. and not to over rate your team.. for example, mexico when they lose they dont hurt as much cuz they dont think too much of themselves.. in your case, you keep thinking too much of yourselves that when you lose you hurt.. and luck isn’t helping you also.. you guys had a very good player called DIEGO ARMANDO MARADONA… in his days you were one of the best countries but these are just not your days to keep acting like you are that big…
so advice no 1
KEEP THE COOL, and i promise you that you will win something soon, just dont put pressure on your NT and you will win something, and once you win that championship you can go out and celebrate being the top of the world…
advice no 2
even after you win something
STILL
KEEP THE COOL
so you don’t get carried away again like this time, when maradona put you top of the world you got carried away for 20 years.. plz when your next big accomplishment comes dont get carried away again…
so people stop saying to you DONT CRY FOR ME ARGENTINA…
thanks everyone
i feel you all

Ali.

Basement doors have flooded open! Trolls have been released to the general populace.

There should be stupid police.

I see that poor sportsmanship and manners not only applies to the Argentine NT but to their supporters as well.

Let me quickly address the fallacy of “The beautiful game” that only Argentina plays. I know most of you are just joking but allow me a quick retort. Did anyone watch the U-20 game against Mexico? After being up by one goal Argentina had 37 men back defending! AH Yes the beautiful game.

Once again to become a member of the EXCLSUIVE THREE (BRAZIL, GERMANY and ITALY) requires Gold Stars and consistent performances. The jerseys of the exclusive three invoke fear, respect and admiration.

Cleary Argentina while a good footballing country is not in this category.

John..are you another ali too..?
what a joke u are
haha
please don’t post another stupid joke
thanks

Nowadays GOD should be hating football and prevents the Albiceleste from winning. What explanation one can give. Definitely, this exhibition of beauty deserved much more. We will keep hoping..

For anybody who tend to say football is just an unaesthetic affair that is all about winning, I offer my pity.